Hello again Summoners. Continuing from my initial discussion here of upcoming itemization changes for the preseason, Id like to talk about a current item to which were making changes, as well as its new and exciting upgrade.
Its Tuesday. You know whats coming.
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Tiamat
(Melee Only)
+50 Attack Damage
+15 Health Regen per 5 seconds
UNIQUE Passive Cleave: Your attacks deal up to 60% of your Attack Damage to units around your target decaying down to 20% near the edge.
UNIQUE Active Crescent: Deals up to 100% of your Attack Damage to units around you decaying down to 60% near the edge 10 second cooldown.
For a very long time, Tiamat has been sitting in this quasi-state of Is this a good item? Is this a terrible item? No longer. Weve cleaned up Tiamat to be far more streamlined in the new item set, giving it a larger cleave range (at the cost of reduced damage near the edge) and greater synergy with other items by removing the restriction of dealing damage based on the damage of the original attack.
So whats different?
1. It has a Unique Passive. Tiamats no longer stack to form odd cases where you deal more damage to a secondary target than the primary target.
2. Tiamat no longer cares about the damage you deal with your main attack; thus, Tiamat procs dont need you to itemize heavy critical strike in order to take advantage of dealing crazy damage. You will always deal a set amount of splash damage based on your Attack Damage.
3. It has a short-cooldown active that allows you to perform a stronger version of the passive Cleave at any time.
4. It is Melee Only, meaning it is no longer a trap item on ranged characters. The active and passive components will literally turn off and be unusable for ranged characters, with the same effect kicking in for dual form characters such as Jayce or Nidalee when theyre in ranged form.
5. It has a much larger cleave radius, at the expense of damage falloff.
6. It no longer has mana regeneration.
7. It has an upgrade.
Lets examine how this might affect your use of Tiamat:
1. It lets you clear minion waves more quickly
Having a larger passive cleave and an active cleave allows melee fighters or carries who pick up Tiamat to farm waves more efficiently, granting decent wave-clear ability to characters who lack it. Characters like Poppy, for example, can now clear a wave with Tiamat in a relatively short amount of time through a combination of passive and active procs.
2. It makes your burst combo more flexible
Having the active Crescent ability means an additional AoE physical spell that you can weave in to your burst combos. A Riven, for example, might take the time to use the Crescent active in between her dashes while a Fiora would want to use Crescent as soon as she descends upon a target with Lunge.
3. It can be used effectively by a wider variety of characters and be useful in more situations
Being built out of high Health Regeneration and Attack Damage gives Tiamat a very smooth build up path for the early game. With the ability to itemize both heavy regeneration and attack damage early in the game you can gain a very strong staying presence in lane.
The Upgrade
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Ravenous Hydra
(Melee Only)
+75 Attack Damage
+15 Health Regen per 5 seconds
+10% Life Steal
Passive: Damage dealt by this item works with Life Steal.
UNIQUE Passive Cleave: Your attacks deal up to 60% of your Attack Damage to units around your target decaying down to 20% near the edge.
UNIQUE Active Crescent: Deals up to 100% of your Attack Damage to units around you decaying down to 60% near the edge 10 second cooldown.
Introducing Ravenous Hydra, a life steal upgrade for Tiamat. While it doesnt enhance any of the damaging aspects of Tiamat, Ravenous Hydra allows you to drain from surrounding enemies via your life steal statistic. This can grant melee fighters incredible staying power when outnumbered or assaulting the front lines. While Hydra wont decimate teams on its own without a huge amount of Attack Damage, the combination of the active ability and life steal will allow experienced players to gain a burst of healing by using Crescent to attack and drain multiple enemy champions.
But wait! Im a Ranged Carry type of player. What do I get in order to do AoE damage?
What prevents Fiora from going mad crazy with these?
Tiamat + R, Fiora basically hits a larger area in exchange for not triggering the 500 damage in the splash at level 18. While this is kind of a trade-off - it also means that stacking Tiamats and hoping the enemy team is grouped up is no longer a thing.
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Does the active proc with on-hit skills?
Also, what about Kayle, will it be turned off when her E is on?
If you're in a ranged form, Tiamat's active and passive will not work. This applies to Jayce/Nidalee/Elise/Kayle/X.
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what about gp?
Parley will still trigger Tiamat, as Gangplank himself is Melee.
Will this still work with ranged on-hit skills like gangplanks Q?
Yes, but only if you're melee. Kayle becomes ranged - so Tiamat will no longer work during her ranged form.
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Will it still work with Fiora's ult because even without stacking it is quite powerful and the larger range will make it still good on her.
It will still work on Fiora's ultimate - but it will no longer inherit the base damage from Fiora's ultimate - so you don't get silly instant-gib cases. It splashes for a % of your total attack damage.
I tried. I still don't know if it's all that great.
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How does this work with Crits? Will GP's parley that crits do additional damage to things around the area?
It currently does not work with critical strikes - it only inherits your base attack damage.
Essentially Hydra --> BT is a very powerful combination while Hydra --> IE is far less so.
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1: Though Riven has a good range w/ ultimate, she's still melee, right?
2: How does it work exactly? Take Nid as example, when I aa in human form and shapeshift + enhance next attack, the enhanced effect is consumed on my flying attack. Is it a similar senario on Tiamat?
1. Riven is still Melee.
2. If you shapeshift, the flying spear will splash right now - as you are currently melee. Yes, this is kind of a weird edge-case that I should probably fix but I mean.. it's the literal functional wording of the mechanic. I'll probably go back and clean this up when I get the chance, thanks for the reminder.
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While you're answering special cases, how is it going to work for Shyvana's dragon form Q?
Tiamat has an internal proc limiter against different targets of 0.05 seconds - so Shyvana's Dragon form isn't going to Tiamat Proc 6 billion times any more and we might be able to add AoE on-hit abilities now. :P
Old Black Cleaver used to proc on WW's ulti due to being on-hit, is it possible you guys can make his ulti deal physical damage to still proc the new Black Cleaver?
Warwick's ultimate will apply the new BC. It'll still do magic though. We have so few cases on magic on-hit effects that it's cleaner for the BC tooltip to read 'dealing physical damage.' New BC is basically on-hit + on-physical.
(Yes, that does mean JIV applies two stacks of the new BC with his passive.)
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Is the AOE range still the same as the old Tiamat, or has it been changed?
AE range is much larger than the old Tiamat - but you run into damage falloff there.
Basically, around old Tiamat range you get 60% damage. 100 units past old Tiamat range, you get 40% damage and 200 units past old Tiamat range, you get 20% damage.
The Active Cleave is even larger than the passive cleave - and gets to about 400 units.
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Silly question, but will Nasus' Q, if he lasts hits a minion(And the cleave 'Last hits' minions around his target), will he still get the points?
I believe so - based on how Nasus' Q is hooked up. We might need to revisit this in the future but for now, let's see how it goes.
How strong is it if Jayce activates his Max Attack Speed thing and goes into Cannon Mode, allowing him to Hammer a person 3 times rapidly?
If you're in cannon mode, you're ranged. No Tiamat procs for you.
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What's it built from?
Why isn't the Tiamat the upgrade of the Hydra instead of the other way around?
Tiamat is currently double regen items + long sword + pickaxe - but we've been pondering whether it should be a Health + AD item rather than a HP Regen + AD item and seeing what would be better.
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If you get a ravenous hydra and a tiamat will the passives stack like most unique passives or only happen once still?
Nope - note that their unique passives are both named 'Cleave' - this is part of our new tooltip terminology to basically state that if you have a unique passive named Cleave, you don't benefit from any other unique passives named Cleave.
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you say it doesnt work with range, but will it work with parrrley?
Although Parley is a ranged spell, Gangplank himself is Melee, so Parley will trigger Tiamat.
Since Renekton's W autoattacks twice, can I assume that it will proc Tiamat twice?
Yes.
It will also proc three times in the rage-empowered form.
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Does the active part of those items function in he same way needing damage to be dealt to proc the effect or is it instant damage that can be used in between attacks/casts?
The active is a separate spell with a short cast time. You can use it in between attacks - but not during a cast.
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How will this work with abilities that modify an auto-attack to deal full magic damage?
Tiamat will always do a percentage of your total attack damage - it doesn't really care what attack applies it at all.
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Does this mean that the passive and active components of tiamat and hydra will proc the new black cleaver passive?
What about Ezreal? He is ranged, but his Q applies on-hits.
Ezreal is ranged, thus Tiamat doesn't work on him.
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Why does it need to build out of Faerie Charm still? a few amount of champs who can benefit from it (farm forever champs such as Yi, Tryn, nasus, etc) do not need the minimal mana regen that provides.
It doesn't build out of Faerie Charm. It only provides health regeneration.
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Xyph, I think what that dude was asking about Jayce, is if you are in cannon form (not getting any Tiamat procs, obviously), and hit W, then R immediately after, you'll smack people 3 times with your hammer at max attack speed. So I think we're wondering if those would all proc Tiamat. I would assume so, but hey, ya never know.
Oh yes, if he's in hammer form, he will rapidly attack them three times, cleaving each time.
Item Preview Its Tuesday
Its Tuesday. You know whats coming.
So whats different?
1. It has a Unique Passive. Tiamats no longer stack to form odd cases where you deal more damage to a secondary target than the primary target.
2. Tiamat no longer cares about the damage you deal with your main attack; thus, Tiamat procs dont need you to itemize heavy critical strike in order to take advantage of dealing crazy damage. You will always deal a set amount of splash damage based on your Attack Damage.
3. It has a short-cooldown active that allows you to perform a stronger version of the passive Cleave at any time.
4. It is Melee Only, meaning it is no longer a trap item on ranged characters. The active and passive components will literally turn off and be unusable for ranged characters, with the same effect kicking in for dual form characters such as Jayce or Nidalee when theyre in ranged form.
5. It has a much larger cleave radius, at the expense of damage falloff.
6. It no longer has mana regeneration.
7. It has an upgrade.
Lets examine how this might affect your use of Tiamat:
1. It lets you clear minion waves more quickly
Having a larger passive cleave and an active cleave allows melee fighters or carries who pick up Tiamat to farm waves more efficiently, granting decent wave-clear ability to characters who lack it. Characters like Poppy, for example, can now clear a wave with Tiamat in a relatively short amount of time through a combination of passive and active procs.
2. It makes your burst combo more flexible
Having the active Crescent ability means an additional AoE physical spell that you can weave in to your burst combos. A Riven, for example, might take the time to use the Crescent active in between her dashes while a Fiora would want to use Crescent as soon as she descends upon a target with Lunge.
3. It can be used effectively by a wider variety of characters and be useful in more situations
Being built out of high Health Regeneration and Attack Damage gives Tiamat a very smooth build up path for the early game. With the ability to itemize both heavy regeneration and attack damage early in the game you can gain a very strong staying presence in lane.
The Upgrade
But wait! Im a Ranged Carry type of player. What do I get in order to do AoE damage?
Stay Tuned.
-Xypherous
Also, what about Kayle, will it be turned off when her E is on?
If it actually gives you true lifesteal, then it will work with the hydra. (As in, your character statistics page shows you have more lifesteal)
For example, Nasus' passive is actual lifesteal so his passive will work with Hydra.
Essentially Hydra --> BT is a very powerful combination while Hydra --> IE is far less so.
2: How does it work exactly? Take Nid as example, when I aa in human form and shapeshift + enhance next attack, the enhanced effect is consumed on my flying attack. Is it a similar senario on Tiamat?
2. If you shapeshift, the flying spear will splash right now - as you are currently melee. Yes, this is kind of a weird edge-case that I should probably fix but I mean.. it's the literal functional wording of the mechanic. I'll probably go back and clean this up when I get the chance, thanks for the reminder.
(Yes, that does mean JIV applies two stacks of the new BC with his passive.)
Basically, around old Tiamat range you get 60% damage. 100 units past old Tiamat range, you get 40% damage and 200 units past old Tiamat range, you get 20% damage.
The Active Cleave is even larger than the passive cleave - and gets to about 400 units.
Why isn't the Tiamat the upgrade of the Hydra instead of the other way around?
It will also proc three times in the rage-empowered form.