@Riot Let's Sit Down And Fix Nami's Ultimate [Participate for the fate of supports!]

  • We've all been waiting for another support to arrive for sometime. Even longer for the arrival of a water caster. While getting both is amazing there is pressure to have Nami live up to what she can be.
    Quite honestly...you're ruining this with the latest iteration. More specifically her ultimate. You really showed us how to gut a fish with this nerf, and it's too much. It's not just that as the way it works just doesn't portray what a giant tsunami is. Not even the first version did that.

    Let's approach this 1 area at a time.

    Problems

    1. Simply Slows

    You removed the knock up on the ultimate and replaced it all with only a slow. This is really pointless, or rather makes the ultimate nearly pointless. In a ruff teamfight what are you going to do with an aoe slow on a super high cooldown. You're making it so that all Tidal Wave will be used for is slowing down running enemies or chasing enemies. With the added tenacity bonuses and new upgrades to boots (and the high mobility many champs now have) this slow serves little significant purpose mid-late game.
    In laning phase it can be useful when going offensive and it gives your carry the opportunity to kite....until the enemy support with a hefty amount of CC wrecks your attempt and saves the carry. Blitz, Ali, Janna, Leona, etc. won't be stopped buy your bubble alone, and a slow won't help much.

    2. This is a WAVE right?

    [This might seem more redundant, but trust me. There is a method to my madness in the Solution section.]

    Riot, you've made claims before that there were some things you didn't do or changed, because they didn't communicate it's purpose well to the players. (See Omen and Lux's ultimate name). So answer me this. What kind of wave washes over someone. What kind of wave SLOWS someone. Don't tidal waves push and knock things together to do damage? I know this is your first Water caster, Riot, but you're not translating what it means to be one as you could through the kit. It's disappointing and lackluster for your first support in a while and your first (and probably only) water caster.

    3. CC Pls

    Remember those supports I named earlier? They have an ashe ton of CC. (play on words, not comparing to the champ). I understand the fair of an ultimate with such a huge range knocking things up is a little much. But she needs more hard CC. There is a compromise. Which brings us to the...

    Solution

    Now this is how you can make Nami's Tidal Wave effective and do what it's name implies what it should be.

    Tidal Wave: Nami summons a massive Tidal Wave from her position. The wave deals magic damage and pushes all enemy units it crashes into and slows each. Enemies closest to the initial spawn point are pushed for a longer duration than those farther away. Enemies who are pushed into a wall or terrain are knocked up. Tidal Wave has a large range.

    At point blank range the push/knock-back should be about the radius of Annie's q and the radius of Riven's w at the very end of the range.

    Along with re-adding the cast animation (which I heard was removed) this should be a balanced ultimate with counter play while still being very powerful. Allow me to explain.

    Think of Janna's ultimate. If you use it correctly you can push your opponent were you want and allow your team or lane partner to go in. At the same time this requires heavy positioning. This usually means burning flash and putting such a squishy character in a dangerous area. This would be essentially the same for Nami. You need to get to the side of the enemy to knock them into a wall. If they are far from it you'll need to get close to push them into it as well. The bubble can by time for this in lane, but it's still tricky with the enemy support or jungle near.

    You could make or break a teamfight with a Tidal Wave like this. Just casting it down the lane in a fight can ruin your team's engage or stop and enemy's. If you don't make the effort to get around the enemy you'll just push them away from your team. You'll need to position yourself to try to knock them were you wish and try to get the knock up. This can divide your team if you need protection or put you in risk if the enemy placed many wards. At the same time if you're successful you can set up some amazing plays with your team.

    An iteration like this should put the ultimate in a spot that feels good to use and is able to have it's numbers adjusted while keeping the feel. Speaking of which it should FEEL goo. It will FEEL like a powerful wave. Powerful waves push things. Crash against things. Nami says she'll wash her opponents away so why make a liar out of her?

    Closing Comments

    Riot, don't get me wrong. You've crafted a really cool champion here. Her art direction and kit design has been awesome, but it's just the ultimate that has fallen short, and you're still going in the wrong direction with it. The damage nerfs from before were reasonable and not too much. The recent w change is great. You're so close to success with this champion, but you'll make it or break it with this ultimate.

    I REALLY want to see this champion succeed. I LOVE water casters and many have been waiting for this moment. Please make this change now so it can be tested in PBE. Do it while you have proper time to focus on Nami. If you move forward now it will be harder to get the appropriate time with her when you have other things on hand.

    Riot Pls! <3

    TL;DR

    Nami's ultimate should push enemies a certain distance base on where the wave hits them, along with a lesser slow. If they get knocked into terrain they should be knocked up. If necessary the Knock up should only be possible through half of the Ultimate's distance. Skim the "Solution" section for more info.

    RIOT PLS <3

    ----

    The temptation to draw Nami comics in the quest for justice is strong.

    Edit 1: Luckily there was a misunderstanding about the Reveal. The reveal left out the information about the knock up so we can take a sigh of relief about that. Regardless I think there is still room for discussion about the ultimate.

    Riot Classick has stopped by and commented on the thread to give his 2 cents.

    Quote:
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    Originally Posted by Classick View Post
    The Tidal Wave still has the same knockup as it does here on PBE. The announcement did not include the ultimate knocking up because at the time it did not. Apologies for the confusion on this!
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    Quote:
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    Originally Posted by Classick View Post
    To respond to the OP's request, we have had a few iterations where we tried knockback based on distance. We generally found problems where you would hit targets in the very back that you may have not even intended to hit and the knockback could end up hurting you in team fights (knocking back Caitlyn while your Tank is attacking her). With a knockup it's always advantageous to hit any target at any time. We also want the use case to be favored as an engaged instead of a disengage.

    Thematically it's a very cool idea and was worth trying, but we found it was not working out as well as just a knockup.
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    You can check my responses and the responses of others in the thread.
  • The Tidal Wave still has the same knockup as it does here on PBE. The announcement did not include the ultimate knocking up because at the time it did not. Apologies for the confusion on this!
  • To respond to the OP's request, we have had a few iterations where we tried knockback based on distance. We generally found problems where you would hit targets in the very back that you may have not even intended to hit and the knockback could end up hurting you in team fights (knocking back Caitlyn while your Tank is attacking her). With a knockup it's always advantageous to hit any target at any time. We also want the use case to be favored as an engaged instead of a disengage.

    Thematically it's a very cool idea and was worth trying, but we found it was not working out as well as just a knockup.