He is currently the strongest top in the game I believe, I'm not saying he's broken, He's just going to come back no matter what, I'm saying that he does too much damage off his base damages alone, and even if you counter/shut him down with ganks, He still ends up being too useful in teamfights by building pure tank. Fix it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, If other tops want to do better damage, They have to build less tanky and get some more damage, and that if they have a hard time in lane they're going to have a hard time for a while, That's not how Darius is.
Unless you're chain ganking a braindead child, (and even then), Darius will still be more useful than just about every other top that was shut down just as hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed
I was actually quite intrigued by the title in your post. It suggested that while you did not originally think Darius was op, something has changed in the power balance since then that has caused you to now think he is op.
However the reasons you listed 'why Darius is op' are the ones that have been brought up and discussed since his release. I will ask you if there was actually an external change in balance that has led you to believe that Darius is op now because I would find that very interesting.
I believe that Darius was indirectly buffed, and will be further indirectly buffed with the coming of season 3.
You're right, I didn't think Darius was overpowered at all quite a while back. I'm glad you picked up on that.
However, Time and time again, Darius has shown his ability to come back as strong as he does, Even after he loses lane miserably.
Have I made this post after losing a game to a Darius in where this happened? Yes.
However, I don't think it's fair that every other top lane can get stomped, and not be able to come back to the degree that Darius consistently does.
I think Darius is far too safe a pick, I don't think he's a safe pick in lane, I think he's a safe pick in game. He comes back too well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchness
What about Jax?
Doesn't he have a superior late game?
He sure does most of the time, However, Jax does not recover as well as Darius, And still needs some form of damage, Generally through trinity or gunblade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroEB
I'm waiting for the day people stop complaing over a champ that kills him and are to stupid to try and counter him. lmao. Plenty of champs do true damage and over 1000 damage, like nunus ult.
LOL. Nunu does his after 3 seconds and it's not true damage, Darius does his whenever the **** he wants.
Sure, Plenty of champs do true damage, But those champs don't do retarded amounts of it, The only one that does do good amounts is a Vayne, and you can actually kill a Vayne.
TL;DR Darius builds straight tank and does the damage of someone who built a few damage items as well.
I was actually quite intrigued by the title in your post. It suggested that while you did not originally think Darius was op, something has changed in the power balance since then that has caused you to now think he is op.
However the reasons you listed 'why Darius is op' are the ones that have been brought up and discussed since his release. I will ask you if there was actually an external change in balance that has led you to believe that Darius is op now because I would find that very interesting.
I believe that Darius was indirectly buffed, and will be further indirectly buffed with the coming of season 3.
You're right, I didn't think Darius was overpowered at all quite a while back. I'm glad you picked up on that.
However, Time and time again, Darius has shown his ability to come back as strong as he does, Even after he loses lane miserably.
Have I made this post after losing a game to a Darius in where this happened? Yes.
However, I don't think it's fair that every other top lane can get stomped, and not be able to come back to the degree that Darius consistently does.
I think Darius is far too safe a pick, I don't think he's a safe pick in lane, I think he's a safe pick in game. He comes back too well.
Can you be more specific about the indirect buffs?
Also he may or may not be op in S3 but I would like to leave that part out in our discussion since something has happened between Darius release and now that has caused you to think that. That is where I am primarily interested in.
While I'm not the OP, I feel like I want to chime in, being a top-lane player.
Instead of looking at Darius, if you look at the other large-name top-lane champions like Jayce, Yorick, Rengar, Xin Zhao, and Vladimir all got nerfed since Darius' release. The only fix Darius has gotten since Draven patch was that his ultimate wouldn't refresh when killing a clone.
But with Jayce having more mana costs and a weaker knockback, Yorick lost healing against minions on his red ghoul and the reduction of true damage on his passive, plus mana cost hikes, Rengar got both his Q and W and his ult duration nerfed repeatedly, Xin lost some base AD that isn't regained until later and lost the crits on his Q, and even Vladimir got some damage nerfs.
In contrast, Darius hasn't been nerfed or toned down at all in comparison to many other dominant top-laners. Furthermore, due to the nature of 'If I get my hands on you, I'll bleed out all your blood', Darius can outplay and beat every one of his natural counters with proper grabs (Which outrange Kayle, Teemo, and Jayce's auto attacks, to name a few) and then a Crippling Strike guarantees he can cover the distance again, even if they flash or use an escape.
So yeah, basically, I agree with the OP. The normal top-lane bruisers who gave Darius runs for his money like Yorick, Rengar, and Jayce have been nerfed enough that they can't really cope with a skilled Darius anymore, while Darius hasn't received any real nerfs at all.
Rengar, remade Xin and Jayce did not exist when Darius was released, I do not think they provide anything to the discussion here. The only ones that may have effected him in your examples would be Yorick and Vlad. Although Vlad's nerf was to his E which was primarily a teamfight tool and not a significant factor in lane.
Not a Vlad or Darius player, but as far as I know Vlad's E is a very significant factor in laning phase against most melee champs... they have to eat constant Es if they want to trade with Vlad... just saying...
My apologies for being unclear. E was nerfed by 5 per rank after 1. Meaning that it would only have started affecting Vlad at level 8. (by 5 damage points). I doubt that it was a significant factor in changing lane dynamics vs. Darius.
They weren't around when Darius was released, but they still were champions that shared the same lane that were then nerfed between now and when Darius was last nerfed.
Jayce used to be the best counterpick to Darius due to the harass of Shock Blast + Gate and his ability to disengage from Darius after he was pulled, but now his mana costs have gone up and the damage on Thundering Blow has dropped, and now he can't lane well against Darius anymore.
Rengar was really kinda unfair in his ability to double-Q for massive damage with no real restraints other than cooldowns. He was still an effective lane against Darius, being able to use bush-juking to minions to escape after being pulled, having a good defensive steroid, and being short enough ranged that he could avoid the bonus damage on Darius' Decimate by sticking to him. But then Rengar's damage across the board was dropped, his cooldowns were increased, and his defensive steroid was reduced by quite a lot, and now he loses to Darius most of the time, too.
Xin and Vladimir are less examples of people who dealt well with Darius, but more examples of dominant top-lane champions who have had small or large nerfs since Darius' release.
The discussion isn't about Release Darius' strength, it's that Darius's strength has remained level since the Draven patch, while other top-lane champions have been weakened by various degrees.
While all that you say is true. I doubt that Jayce and Rengar would have contributed to the question I have in hand. Darius was regarded by many as being OP on release, but around a month later the concensus was that he was mediocre. Jayce (and Rengar) were both severely underplayed after release and I doubt they made an impact in how most people viewed Darius' power level.
Of course OP or you can be in the camp of 'Darius was op when he was released, but the addition of new champs balanced him out. Since they are now nerfed Darius is OP again' and that would be a fair point. (Albeit not really interesting for me anymore)
Darius is overpowered, Why? Because everyone else got nerfed.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, If other tops want to do better damage, They have to build less tanky and get some more damage, and that if they have a hard time in lane they're going to have a hard time for a while, That's not how Darius is.
Unless you're chain ganking a braindead child, (and even then), Darius will still be more useful than just about every other top that was shut down just as hard.
However the reasons you listed 'why Darius is op' are the ones that have been brought up and discussed since his release. I will ask you if there was actually an external change in balance that has led you to believe that Darius is op now because I would find that very interesting.
You're right, I didn't think Darius was overpowered at all quite a while back. I'm glad you picked up on that.
However, Time and time again, Darius has shown his ability to come back as strong as he does, Even after he loses lane miserably.
Have I made this post after losing a game to a Darius in where this happened? Yes.
However, I don't think it's fair that every other top lane can get stomped, and not be able to come back to the degree that Darius consistently does.
I think Darius is far too safe a pick, I don't think he's a safe pick in lane, I think he's a safe pick in game. He comes back too well.
Doesn't he have a superior late game?
Sure, Plenty of champs do true damage, But those champs don't do retarded amounts of it, The only one that does do good amounts is a Vayne, and you can actually kill a Vayne.
TL;DR Darius builds straight tank and does the damage of someone who built a few damage items as well.
However the reasons you listed 'why Darius is op' are the ones that have been brought up and discussed since his release. I will ask you if there was actually an external change in balance that has led you to believe that Darius is op now because I would find that very interesting.
You're right, I didn't think Darius was overpowered at all quite a while back. I'm glad you picked up on that.
However, Time and time again, Darius has shown his ability to come back as strong as he does, Even after he loses lane miserably.
Have I made this post after losing a game to a Darius in where this happened? Yes.
However, I don't think it's fair that every other top lane can get stomped, and not be able to come back to the degree that Darius consistently does.
I think Darius is far too safe a pick, I don't think he's a safe pick in lane, I think he's a safe pick in game. He comes back too well.
Also he may or may not be op in S3 but I would like to leave that part out in our discussion since something has happened between Darius release and now that has caused you to think that. That is where I am primarily interested in.
Instead of looking at Darius, if you look at the other large-name top-lane champions like Jayce, Yorick, Rengar, Xin Zhao, and Vladimir all got nerfed since Darius' release. The only fix Darius has gotten since Draven patch was that his ultimate wouldn't refresh when killing a clone.
But with Jayce having more mana costs and a weaker knockback, Yorick lost healing against minions on his red ghoul and the reduction of true damage on his passive, plus mana cost hikes, Rengar got both his Q and W and his ult duration nerfed repeatedly, Xin lost some base AD that isn't regained until later and lost the crits on his Q, and even Vladimir got some damage nerfs.
In contrast, Darius hasn't been nerfed or toned down at all in comparison to many other dominant top-laners. Furthermore, due to the nature of 'If I get my hands on you, I'll bleed out all your blood', Darius can outplay and beat every one of his natural counters with proper grabs (Which outrange Kayle, Teemo, and Jayce's auto attacks, to name a few) and then a Crippling Strike guarantees he can cover the distance again, even if they flash or use an escape.
So yeah, basically, I agree with the OP. The normal top-lane bruisers who gave Darius runs for his money like Yorick, Rengar, and Jayce have been nerfed enough that they can't really cope with a skilled Darius anymore, while Darius hasn't received any real nerfs at all.
Jayce used to be the best counterpick to Darius due to the harass of Shock Blast + Gate and his ability to disengage from Darius after he was pulled, but now his mana costs have gone up and the damage on Thundering Blow has dropped, and now he can't lane well against Darius anymore.
Rengar was really kinda unfair in his ability to double-Q for massive damage with no real restraints other than cooldowns. He was still an effective lane against Darius, being able to use bush-juking to minions to escape after being pulled, having a good defensive steroid, and being short enough ranged that he could avoid the bonus damage on Darius' Decimate by sticking to him. But then Rengar's damage across the board was dropped, his cooldowns were increased, and his defensive steroid was reduced by quite a lot, and now he loses to Darius most of the time, too.
Xin and Vladimir are less examples of people who dealt well with Darius, but more examples of dominant top-lane champions who have had small or large nerfs since Darius' release.
The discussion isn't about Release Darius' strength, it's that Darius's strength has remained level since the Draven patch, while other top-lane champions have been weakened by various degrees.
Of course OP or you can be in the camp of 'Darius was op when he was released, but the addition of new champs balanced him out. Since they are now nerfed Darius is OP again' and that would be a fair point. (Albeit not really interesting for me anymore)