Some simple Volibear playability thingies

  • WE DID IT EVERYONE! GUESS WHO CAME! VOLTY DID! HE REALLY DID! http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...65607#32565607

    This thread has clearly evolved to be much more than a few simple changes. It is very very clear right now that Riot has left Volibear out of the equation for the new S3 changes. His jungle is trashy, his top lane is impossible and his support is completely undesirable.

    Some aspects of Volibear are very annoying and unfun to use.

    1. His W stacks do not last long enough. Just a 1 second increase would make it so much more useable without actually changing the power of the ability.

    2. His ultimate's cast time / animation is just horrid. If I use it before I enter a team fight by the time I reach my target it's half way done. If I use it in a team fight I stop moving and attacking for over half a second making it really hard to use properly.
    (An idea for a new animation. A lightning bolt hits Volibear's helmet as he roars. Which would look better than just making Voli slide while using his ult)

    3. A very very small range increase to his W just 25-50 range. (This ties in to point 1. I can be chasing a target and have my stacks fall off while they're just out of range)
    (If #1 goes through #3 wouldn't need to.)

    4. Tighter coding on his Q so that when I'm standing almost on top of someone (but not actually past them) it flings them away from me in the opposite direction of the way it should. (And sometimes if Volibear loses sight of his target while his Q is active he will stop and become unresponsive for a second or so)
    (Perhaps Volibear could also ignore unit collision while his Q is active?)

    5. A -0.5 second cd / rank for his W. With Darius being able to execute left and right all other executes become weaker. This makes it stronger and will likely put Voli in a slightly better place.

    -----New suggestions (centered around the inevitable rework)-----

    - His W becomes a nuke on a shorter cooldown that doesn't require stacks to cast, however having stacks greatly amplifies this abilities damage. No longer scales off health or acts like an execute (now scales off of AD).

    - New passive (credit to Knight of Dusk for this idea)
    Storm Armour (Passive)
    Every time Volibear uses a skill he gains 3 charges of Storm Armour. For every charge, Volibear gains 2.5 armour and magic resistance. Volibear can have a maximum of 15 charges. Whenever Volibear gets struck by an enemy champion, his armour unleashes an electrical discharge reducing their armour and magic resistance by double the amount (5 AR/MR) for 3 seconds. This effect consumes 1 charge of Storm Armour.

    - Q "bumps" away targets Volibear collides with during the movement speed burst (maybe just minions if it's too OP, the purpose is ignoring unit collision, but with a beary feel to it)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jolan View Post
    Official @UnbearablePuns Seal...err, BEAR of approval.
    I like bears.

    Edit 1: Over 100 upvotes and the thread has been alive for a week and no red post. Come on Riot what's up
    Edit 2: Woot! 150 upvotes, still no Riot
    Edit 3: Woo 200 upvotes!
    Edit 4: We need more motivation so I did a horrible photo shop.
    Edit 5: Soraka and Poppy (DO NOT LOOK AT THE RIGHT SIDE OF HER FACE) join Volibear as horrible monstrosities.
    Edit 6: Yay!! 300 upvotes!

    Edit 7: I have confirmed on Twitter that RiotVolty (Volibear's designer) has seen this thread. Advances have been made.

    Edit 8: 350 upvotes. I love you guys (SPECIAL SHOUTOUT TO KNIGHT OF DUSK, this guy has been helping me bump this thread on his own initiative (I <3 you))
    Edit 9: Shen baby and Fiddle'Maw are here for Volibear's support!
    Edit 10: 400 upvotes, this is crazy.
    Edit 11: 450 upvotes! You guys are fantastic, however still no Riot
    Edit 12: After speaking with Morello and Volty on Twitter my heart is completely broken in two. I was told by Volty that just to fix bugs and massive playability issues we would have to "drop power in other places". I have a feeling neither Morello or Volty have played a game as Volibear in a long long time.

    Edit 13: 500 Upvotes! You guys are amaaaaaazing infinite love for you all! <3

    Edit 14: Special thanks to Asdioh for getting Statikk to comment on Volibear.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
    To be completely honest with you, I don't think Volibear is a good jungler both on Live and in the new one currently in iteration. He feels currently much better suited for Top Lane.

    Unlike other champions where I feel there are small tweaks we can make to ensure they are viable in the new jungle, Volibear feels fairly off and would need some significant changes (both buffs and nerfs) to switch him more into a jungle role.
    Things look grim for the near future of Volibear. However in the long run, perhaps, perhaps we can envision a day where the bear can run free, free of the shackles of poor kit design and gameplay limitations.

    Edit 15: Volibear buff..? I think? Thank you Riot, um I uh. I guess.
    Edit 16: 550 upvotes! Yayayayayayayayaayyayayayayayayaayyayay
    Edit 17: We just hit 100 pages. That's 1000 posts in this thread (and none of them from Riot ). Thank you guys so much, with the Season 3 changes mostly looking to hurt Volibear surely we can get a red post soon!!!
    Edit 18: 600 upvotes?!!?!!!?!?! Why this is crazy!
    Edit 19: 700 upvotes :O! And Volty?!!
    Edit 20: 800 upvotes! Oh my
    Edit 21: Looks like things are coming up bear.
  • I've gone through a bit of this thread tonight. You guys, Ursa Arcadius and friends, are raising some great points. I'd like to improve Volibear. The front runner issue for me is to resolve how R's cast time feels bad, because standing still to cast is directly counter to the melee gameplan.

    Two possibilities immediately present themselves:

    1. Remove the cast time. (Boring but direct.)
    2. Make the spell worthy of a cast time. This could be by adding another mechanic, like a material chunk of upfront PBAoE damage. Could even collapse the E into the R as a single (cast-time) spell and make a new E.

    Thoughts?

    Sorry I haven't had been responsive to this thread. Let's see what we can accomplish together!
  • A lot of good discussion already! But also a lot of varying points of view.

    I agree that understanding our desires for role and lane will be helpful. If you reply I request that you state your preference for lane (e.g. top, jungle, lane support) and role (e.g. tank, fighter, melee dps).

    I will consider and do more research tomorrow.
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    Originally Posted by Cyraknoss View Post
    the proposed E change would flat eliminate jungle Voli while solving nothing for top. He's just not viable up there without some sort of innate CC blocker like Olaf's ult, or a spammable ranged farm ability like shen's Q, so changing him around top lane is a mistake. You wouldn't run Amumu top lane and you shouldn't run Volibear there either, his kit just isn't set up for it.
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    Yeah, totally not committed to dropping the E skill, was just an idea.

    Volibear feels workable in either top or jungle right now, or is at least close to it. Solving his scaling / itemization might be all he needs for top to become strong.
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    Originally Posted by Ursa Ar├žadius View Post
    If you were to take away his E I'd like to get your thoughts on this potential replacement.

    Imperative Roar

    Volibear shouts words of lightning, sending out a ball of delicious electrical pain (Think Dragonborn for the visuals). All units hit by this roar...

    Option one-InitiatorBear: instantly lose 70% of their movement speed but quickly regain the lost speed over 1.5 second
    Option two-BruisiBear: are slowed for up to 60% based on how low hp the target is and takes X(+Y bonus AP) magical damage
    Option three-TankiBear: are frozen in place for 1 second and deal Z% reduced damage for T seconds

    ...any minions or monsters caught in this roar are feared for 3 seconds

    I believe Voli should go the way of an AP bruiser instead of sometimes 60% physical 15% magical, sometimes 55% magical 30% physical etc depending on the build (notice how these hybrid builds don't add to 100%)

    It's also a wonderful homage to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L3DMJB8yGM (and a wonderful skin idea)
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    Moving a slow onto R, I would seek a different function for the new E.
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    Originally Posted by Knight of Dusk View Post
    I agree with like 90% of what is being said so far, keep up the good work guys! I read most of the replies even if I don't respond to everything.

    Let's hope Volty is doing the same
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    I'm catching up now on the conversation...
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    Originally Posted by Is Not Gay View Post
    I think Volibear is already strong, and for the most part relatively misunderstood and underestimated. I'm not against buffs for him, but I think it would be VERY EASY to make Volibear extremely OP with just a few small buffs. All I want is for the balance team to tread carefully here
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    Absolutely. Looking to adjust in ways that solve design problems--not just add power.
  • I want to also be really clear that this is just a plan for testing---none of this is set in stone or will necessarily see live servers.

    But we are making progress!
  • Thank you everyone who has contributed to the discussion! I really appreciate your input and especially the varying points of view.

    So big update:

    I talked to Morello today, we have a gameplan to move forward with into testing. All skills will remain in very recognizable forms, but with some significant changes aimed a solving some specific issues. Without disclosing all the details, these are the goals (and some of the solutions.)

    - Avoid pitfalls of the fighter role, including binary performance entirely dependent on closing to melee. In plainer terms, we want Volibear to reach melee somewhat more consistently but not become massively threatening until he spends a little bit of time there first.
    - Ensure jungle viability.
    - Clean up scaling, probably by removing AP in favor of other stats. (Health scaling to remain.)
    - R cast while moving, enough said.

    I also discussed our approach with Live Design, who are enthusiastic about the direction.

    I will try to get the changes into playtest soon, and will post more updates as I can.
  • Quote:
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    Originally Posted by Cyraknoss View Post
    Makes me rather hopeful, especially the "reach melee more consistently" as that's always been Volibears biggest weakness. Obviously some power has to fall off somewhere in exchange and it sounds like possibly we'll see more W stacks before Bite is useable which I'm okay with so long as they remain for longer before they fall off or at the least fade 1 at a time instead of a binary stacks are on or off like it is now.

    Just please make sure that you're accounting for how the Q + E combo works right now. Reaching melee more consistently could mean anything from better slow, more movement speed to giving him tenacity during Q or ignoring unit collision. But the slow from E is just as vital to his current ability to reach melee as his Q. I believe i mentioned in an earlier post that about 40% of my successful flips are a result of the slow from E when I was having difficulty catching someone.
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    Yup! This is well understood!