Junglers have two big problems. 1, they make sigificantly less gold than the solo laners, and 2, the solo lanes usually start taking jungle creeps at an ever increasing rate when the gold for jungle creeps (which is supposed to help junglers) starts to increase due to game length.
So here is a possible solution;
Make all jungle creeps worth less to everyone, but then add in a passive to smite or to machete (probably smite so as not to even further the necessity of starting machete) that gives bonus gold for jungle creep kills. This way, farming the jungle becomes less appealing to laners so that they dont come to take your wraiths right as your doing them, and the junglers gold increases slightly due to creeps being worth more in general to him and also that he can farm more camps.
I'm no pro player, but I've never needed as much gold on Naut and Amumu than Nocturne.
Edit: That's not what they say. Amumu cries in the corner, because he's still chain banned at my Elo, but if he wasn't he'd say have a hug, and an AoE damage stun. Nautilus says "I have 4 CCs, now let me remind you what everyone on the team being rooted 1 at a time feels like."
I haven't played Sejuani much, but she probably says something cold.
I'm really not sure what Avarice blade would do other than set you back - By the 5-10 minute mark my middle is taking wraiths and wants blue, my AD carry wants red and my bottom is taking golems, and after that for the rest of the game the rest of the team just takes the entire jungle =P
Avarice blade isn't even good in lane, every time I've got it in the jungle it just makes me sad.
Your mid taking your wraiths can be a good thing. Those guys have a really fast timer, and if they are down, then the enemy jungler can't steal them when he's mad that you are stealing all this small camps. I don't know if you've checked, but avarice blade gives +2 gold per kill. That's 40% more gold from little wraiths and the like. Steal them from the enemy. Check the map to see where he is. Take advantage of his ganks by stealing his stuff on the other side of the map if you are not close enough to counter gank.
The best case scenario for a tank is that you eventually build it into the wraith collar thing that gives a minor amount of MR and movement speed. You'll have more gold but you -still- traded early defenses against that guy who built far more damage while you sat there and built AP.
A tanky/gank jungler just can't win like that.
Don't forget. Those tanky junglers mentioned in this thread have good CC. Not everyone has to bring damage to the team fights to be useful.
I'm not sure I can be giving you a blank enough look - I'm very aware of what Avarice blade does - As a jungler, you'll generally average around 100 cs in a game of 30-40 minutes. Assuming you get avarice blade after around 30-40, you'll be averaging an average of 120 gold from its passive, and maybe 300 from its gp10. Even the nerfed philo stone provides more overall.
My point is, even if you are clearing the entire jungle AND counterjungling your opponent (A very risky thing to do, especially in ranked games) the entire game, Avarice blade provides very little.
Jungler gold problems come from simply either having no minions to farm (As games progress, lanes simply take jungle more, and that's correct - If you are a good jungler you'll be setting up ganks and counterganks, not always farming), and relying on an item that encourages farming is counterproductive for that.
Listen, all I can tell you about is my own person experience. I don't know what Elo you play in, but I'm at 1059. Last game (ranked) I went 8/4/8 as Nocturne. I had 216 CS and made 13,487 gold. I had an avarice blade as my 3rd item (spirit stone, boots1, avarice blade). The enemy Lee Sin had 11/5/4 and about 4k less gold than me. He didn't CS as well as I did by far. I covered lanes when the others were away. I stole the enemy jungle creeps. I kept pressure on the lanes. Lee Sin started 6/0/0 so he had an early gold advantage. I watched the map often to know where he was and where I expected him to show up. I know his jungle timing as well as my own, and I know when mid is going for blue buff. We played smart and did things like take dragon when 3 were top, and baron when 4 were dead. I don't know who you jungle or how you play. I've only had limited experience with a few junglers in the preseason. I'm not saying avarice blade is the end all be all of all gold items for a jungler. What I'm saying is, try avarice blade. I did in my last ranked game and had the most gold.
Yah. I only have problems when camps get sniped when I am on my way to them. Honestly, I think there is plenty of XP and gold in the jungle if it isn't shared but that's just not realistic most games past 5 minutes.
I totally understand where you're coming from when you say this, but I personally do not consider jungle camps "sniped" by my teammates. There is a limited amount of resources on the map for the team. Gold is not always best in my hands. As a team we need to work together to get as much gold as possible to the right people so we can win. Sometimes that's a non jungler taking some camps. There are cases where it will be a real problem for me if I don't get that gold, and at those times I politely communicate with the other players about my view of the situation to come up with the best strategy for the camps. It is rare (1/8?) that I have to have that conversation however, because I normally either don't care, or outright encourage mid to take wraiths as long as I'm not currently killing them, because they spawn too fast, and I hate to waste the gold.
Personally, as soon as laners start taking my jungle I assume laning phase is basically over and I power push/farm lanes that the enemy laner aren't in. This allows me to keep laners focused on objectives (towers, dragon, baron) instead of those tasty looking minions.
This is a decent rule of thumb as well. I like to also try to figure out of my mid is winning. If they are winning and taking wraiths, awesome. If they are losing and taking wraiths, I will put more pressure on mid so they don't have to.
Riot, pls help junglers
So here is a possible solution;
Make all jungle creeps worth less to everyone, but then add in a passive to smite or to machete (probably smite so as not to even further the necessity of starting machete) that gives bonus gold for jungle creep kills. This way, farming the jungle becomes less appealing to laners so that they dont come to take your wraiths right as your doing them, and the junglers gold increases slightly due to creeps being worth more in general to him and also that he can farm more camps.
thoughts on this GD?
Edit: That's not what they say. Amumu cries in the corner, because he's still chain banned at my Elo, but if he wasn't he'd say have a hug, and an AoE damage stun. Nautilus says "I have 4 CCs, now let me remind you what everyone on the team being rooted 1 at a time feels like."
I haven't played Sejuani much, but she probably says something cold.
Avarice blade isn't even good in lane, every time I've got it in the jungle it just makes me sad.
Items the support will be getting.
The best case scenario for a tank is that you eventually build it into the wraith collar thing that gives a minor amount of MR and movement speed. You'll have more gold but you -still- traded early defenses against that guy who built far more damage while you sat there and built AP.
A tanky/gank jungler just can't win like that.
My point is, even if you are clearing the entire jungle AND counterjungling your opponent (A very risky thing to do, especially in ranked games) the entire game, Avarice blade provides very little.
Jungler gold problems come from simply either having no minions to farm (As games progress, lanes simply take jungle more, and that's correct - If you are a good jungler you'll be setting up ganks and counterganks, not always farming), and relying on an item that encourages farming is counterproductive for that.