If I technically had 100% armor reduction on an enemy...

  • They would have zero armor right?
  • Wouldn't it be easier to get flat pen and just reduce their armor to 0 that way? I also think armor can go effectively negative with flat pen, but I don't know if you get bonus damage because of that. I think super minions have -30 magic resist, for example.
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    Originally Posted by Ahris Boobs View Post
    no, only flat reduction can take an opponent's resists into the negatives.
    So pretty much only morgana/soraka/amumu/fiddle together will get somebody into negative Mres.

    I have yet to see negative armor.
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    But isn't armor pen like effective armor reduction? I haven't looked at the code so I don't know how it works (I do know how our animation.Duration code works though).
    Edit: guess not, thanks for answering

    Level 1 Sona has bad resists, could we get her to negative?
  • So, a few notes that may have been covered, or may have been misconstrued.

    The order of effects are as follows:

    1. Flat Reduction
    2. Percentage Reduction
    3. Percentage Penetration
    4. Flat Penetration

    Your armor value is recalculated based on those rules if its base changes while the debuffs are present. All percentage effects stack multiplicatively.


    Penetration can only bring the mitigation stat to 0, Reduction can go beyond. Negative mitigation gives you a damage amp equal to the damage reduction you would have gained if you had positive mitigation with the same magnitude.


    Armor Penetration is a buff that lets a single champion do more damage to anyone with armor.
    Armor Reduction is a debuff that makes a single champion take more damage from physical damage.
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    Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    I thought you guys said that % will now be first, then FLAT.
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    We have never made that claim for Reduction effects, only Penetration.
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    Originally Posted by Courtney View Post
    Which skill gives Flat reduction? Exhaust? (With mastery)
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    Starcall
    Fiddle Passive
    Amumu Passive
    Exhaust
    Taric Shatter
    etc
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    Originally Posted by Fomorian27 View Post
    What does this mean for reduction then? That there are wasted stats if you happen to have both % reduction and flat reduction on the same target, much like how it used to be with penetration? Would there be any huge gameplay implications if these were reversed as well?
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    Wasted is not the correct term, but yes, the end result of the calculation will be less than had it been Percentage then Flat.

    I can't speak to whether the game would be better or not if we switched them, but it'd actually be a non-trivial change to make because of how the system is set up right now. I'd rather not get into whether it "should" or not; my focus is telling people what "is".
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    Originally Posted by Enceph View Post
    I also thought it was % reduction before flat. That's what the League of Legends Wikia says and it goes into detailed examples:

    http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor_penetration
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    I believe Percentage Reduction came first quite a while ago--early Season 2 or even pre-S2. This article may have vetted the behavior way back when.

    It is definitely not the case now.

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    Originally Posted by Galbalicious View Post
    What about armor 'Shred" treated as reduction?
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    Shred is just a synonym for reduction.
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    Originally Posted by Opreich View Post
    Xypherous said that reductions counted what debuff that was placed first.

    IE, % then Flat would be different from Flat then %.
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    I talked with Xyph; we looked at the code; we tested it in-game.

    All flats are collected additively and applied.
    All %'s are collected multiplicatively and applied.

    Edit: for Reductions, not Penetrations. Just to be clear.