Speaking of maths, how do you personally feel about haunting guise's new path and options and magic pen in general? I haven't seen a lot of people building much being Liandry's and pen boots so is Void Staff going the way of the dinosaur?*
*please don't crucify me for asking questions, forum
Speaking of maths, how do you personally feel about haunting guise's new path and options and magic pen in general? I haven't seen a lot of people building much being Liandry's and pen boots so is Void Staff going the way of the dinosaur?
summary of feelings:
-magic penetration is still extremely strong.
-flat penetration is too easy to get for how strong it is, and doesn't require you to give much (if anything) up.
-liandry's is really good as a late-game upgrade and plays into the 'not giving anything up' bit above.
-void staff is probably too strong right now… it might not be, that's my gut feeling.
it's almost 5 in the morning, so i'm not going to go all 'crazy details and math' right now, but basically things got pretty awesome for mages that care about dealing magic damage.
best core damage build (for 'skill gatling') is something like:
dfg, haunting guise, void staff, sorc shoes
7880g for +195 ability power, +30 | +32% magic penetration, +15% cdr, +200 health, +45 movement speed, and the dfg active.
this varies a little bit based on a few factors, but that's basically what you want if your job is to make people dead. there isn't really a lot of room for substitutions unless you're willing to pay for it one way or another. if you really don't need the dfg active, then you can sub it out for morellonomicon (plus a start on another ap item) or deathcap, but then you'd be giving up the dfg active.
the only reasons you wouldn't see void staff on someone (that i can think of offhand) would be because they're snowballing really hard early game and opt for more flat penetration first, or they can't afford to prioritize damage over something else. otherwise they should be getting it sometime before late-game (assuming the enemy team is building responsibly). again, this is all generalized and is assuming the mage's core responsibility on the team is dealing magic damage.
Nonsense, nobody builds magic resistance anymore, except maybe the support if they get a Runic. Thus, Void staff that gives only AP and %Pen just doesn't compare to flat Pen with other goodies.
runic is more than enough reason, tbh. chances are that a couple of the enemy champions have scaling base magic resist, and magic resist glyphs aren't entirely uncommon.
besides, i think that chalice, abyssal, guardian angel, hexdrinker, merc treads, and aegis are all still fairly common.
You do NOT penetrate more MR than in s2. Mages are immensely weaker for many reasons
we changed the way penetration is calculated. percent is calculated before flat now, so most of your post (that would have been true under the old rules) is invalidated by that.
the 'sorc shoes alone' bit is still right. with just m.pen marks, sorc shoes and the m.pen mastery, a target with 30 magic resist pre-mitigation would take damage as if they had 4.8 magic resist instead of 1.35 magic resist (and the gap gets closer as they gain magic resist).
Liandry's is an extremely useful pick, even as a rush item.
eh, i'm not convinced that rushing liandry's is a great ideai'd rather put the 1415g towards other things until its best case of 1.67% current health every 0.5 seconds is better than my champion's natural scaling (that is often more reliable) and other actives/passives i want in my build.
i still think the passive good, but i haven't seen a situation in which liandry's rush was the best call.
It used to be the way it is now a long time ago and then it was changed to be flat before % based pen. Why did you decide to revert that change now?
iirc, xypherous has made a few posts on the subject.
i might be paraphrasing him incorrectly, but i believe that it was essentially the first step in creating a much healthier environment for all archetypes. that way fighters, assassins, and mages could all co-exist with carries without having to have ridiculous things built into their kits to compensate for damage calculations that were set up around the carry's power curve.
i suggest trying to search for his posts for see if you can flag him down to post in a relevant thread if you're curious about the matter.
How do you think Master Yi is doing with the new itemization and masteries? As AD or AP?
Do you think Black Cleaver is too powerful and too convenient of a pick? I mean, it's nice to have a bruiser item, but it gives a bruiser nearly everything they need. Bruiser itemization is staler that it was before because it's based around a single item now. It would be like if Rabadon's added some free spell vamp and CDR.
Did Leviathan really need to get deleted? Double Stack Garen was one of the funnest (and rather viable) builds to play.
these are all questions that the live design team could speak to with a lot more data/context to back it up, but i can give you my personal views on them.
-master yi built as a melee carry probably got the most significant buffs (both direct and indirect), but i still think that melee carries are just as awkward fitting into a team comp as they were before. so i'd say he's doing better but i don't think he'll be more common in solo queue.
-i think black cleaver might be a little too 'heavy-handed' of a solution, but i don't really hold that against it. i think to some degree there's going to be at least one item that feels core to an archetype, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. an entire build being stale is pretty lame though, like every ad carry champion in season 2 building the same 5 items every game.
-yeah, it's probably for the best that leviathan is gone. the item's passive would have been more attractive now, which is dangerous since the item is pretty terrible or 'meh' with 0-19 stacks and amazing at 20 stacks.
Great post! Thank you, but I do have one question.
Does +30 | +32% magic penetration mean +30 AND +32% or +30 OR +30% magic penetration?
| is an operator that means OR in some languages. I am not talking about C/C++ (even though it is similar ||).
oh, sorrythat's how it shows up in the character sheet in games. "x | y" translates as "x flat penetration and y % penetration" when i use it. so the scenario to which i was referring would be 7.8 | 8% before and 37.8 | 40% after, and both get applied in damage calculations with the % happening first.
example of the former case versus a target with 100 magic resist:
100 - 8% = 92
92 - 7.8 = 84.2
example of the latter case versus a target with 100 magic resist:
100 - 40% = 60
60 - 37.8 = 22.2
so you'd be penetrating 62 more magic resist with those items against a target with 100 magic resist.
Considering the person with the Caitlyn avatar is supposedly really good at math, it's amazing that Cait's passive tooltip still says it's "Every 8th shot" actives Headshot.
Or does 8 = 6 in Runeterra?
it's 8 for levels 1-6, 7 for levels 7-12, and 6 for levels 13-18.
the tooltip should be updating appropriately, but sometimes there's a slight delay so it might not happen the exact moment you hit 7 or 13.
@ricklessabandon Why u math so good?
*please don't crucify me for asking questions, forum
-magic penetration is still extremely strong.
-flat penetration is too easy to get for how strong it is, and doesn't require you to give much (if anything) up.
-liandry's is really good as a late-game upgrade and plays into the 'not giving anything up' bit above.
-void staff is probably too strong right now… it might not be, that's my gut feeling.
it's almost 5 in the morning, so i'm not going to go all 'crazy details and math' right now, but basically things got pretty awesome for mages that care about dealing magic damage.
best core damage build (for 'skill gatling') is something like:
dfg, haunting guise, void staff, sorc shoes
7880g for +195 ability power, +30 | +32% magic penetration, +15% cdr, +200 health, +45 movement speed, and the dfg active.
this varies a little bit based on a few factors, but that's basically what you want if your job is to make people dead. there isn't really a lot of room for substitutions unless you're willing to pay for it one way or another. if you really don't need the dfg active, then you can sub it out for morellonomicon (plus a start on another ap item) or deathcap, but then you'd be giving up the dfg active.
the only reasons you wouldn't see void staff on someone (that i can think of offhand) would be because they're snowballing really hard early game and opt for more flat penetration first, or they can't afford to prioritize damage over something else. otherwise they should be getting it sometime before late-game (assuming the enemy team is building responsibly). again, this is all generalized and is assuming the mage's core responsibility on the team is dealing magic damage.
besides, i think that chalice, abyssal, guardian angel, hexdrinker, merc treads, and aegis are all still fairly common.
the 'sorc shoes alone' bit is still right. with just m.pen marks, sorc shoes and the m.pen mastery, a target with 30 magic resist pre-mitigation would take damage as if they had 4.8 magic resist instead of 1.35 magic resist (and the gap gets closer as they gain magic resist).
i still think the passive good, but i haven't seen a situation in which liandry's rush was the best call.
i might be paraphrasing him incorrectly, but i believe that it was essentially the first step in creating a much healthier environment for all archetypes. that way fighters, assassins, and mages could all co-exist with carries without having to have ridiculous things built into their kits to compensate for damage calculations that were set up around the carry's power curve.
i suggest trying to search for his posts for see if you can flag him down to post in a relevant thread if you're curious about the matter.
How do you think Master Yi is doing with the new itemization and masteries? As AD or AP?
Do you think Black Cleaver is too powerful and too convenient of a pick? I mean, it's nice to have a bruiser item, but it gives a bruiser nearly everything they need. Bruiser itemization is staler that it was before because it's based around a single item now. It would be like if Rabadon's added some free spell vamp and CDR.
Did Leviathan really need to get deleted? Double Stack Garen was one of the funnest (and rather viable) builds to play.
-master yi built as a melee carry probably got the most significant buffs (both direct and indirect), but i still think that melee carries are just as awkward fitting into a team comp as they were before. so i'd say he's doing better but i don't think he'll be more common in solo queue.
-i think black cleaver might be a little too 'heavy-handed' of a solution, but i don't really hold that against it. i think to some degree there's going to be at least one item that feels core to an archetype, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. an entire build being stale is pretty lame though, like every ad carry champion in season 2 building the same 5 items every game.
-yeah, it's probably for the best that leviathan is gone. the item's passive would have been more attractive now, which is dangerous since the item is pretty terrible or 'meh' with 0-19 stacks and amazing at 20 stacks.
Does +30 | +32% magic penetration mean +30 AND +32% or +30 OR +30% magic penetration?
| is an operator that means OR in some languages. I am not talking about C/C++ (even though it is similar ||).
example of the former case versus a target with 100 magic resist:
100 - 8% = 92
92 - 7.8 = 84.2
example of the latter case versus a target with 100 magic resist:
100 - 40% = 60
60 - 37.8 = 22.2
so you'd be penetrating 62 more magic resist with those items against a target with 100 magic resist.
Or does 8 = 6 in Runeterra?
the tooltip should be updating appropriately, but sometimes there's a slight delay so it might not happen the exact moment you hit 7 or 13.