Pros and Cons of Riot's "Goth Annie" Decision

  • The most recent Sh*tstorm in LoL has just occurred and I feel it is necessary to post a coherent and neutral perspective on the matter at hand. I see each side's arguments and I understand the validity of each argument as well. So let's examine this in a civilized manner shall we?

    The sequence of events leading to this was very simple:
    >Riot made a post declaring that Goth Annie would be available separate from her assigned bundle for 10 days at the price of 975 RP
    >Prior owners of the skin and a very few others declared this "unfair" because they had payed 3900 RP for the skin, some runes, and a bunch of champions
    >Riot decided to reverse their decision to the dismay of many people who had suddenly gotten their hopes up

    In short, the immediate and angry backlash to the decision led to a knee jerk reaction by Riot to reverse their decision. In my opinion this was a poor move on Riot's part, not because I'm one of the hopeful Goth Annie buyers, but because it shows that a large outcry over a select group's unhappiness can effect the entire LoL community. That being said, let's look at both sides of the argument.

    For the group that is opposing the sale of Goth Annie the argument is as follows:
    "We were promised that the skin would be exclusive to the bundle and now it isn't, too many people are going to have it and that's not fair because I payed more for it."

    For the group that is supporting the sale of Goth Annie there are a few arguments, they are:
    1. "This is now effectively a 'new skin' and we would like the opportunity to purchase it at a reduced price before it goes back to its full price."
    2. "I already own many of the champions in the bundle, I would have purchased it earlier but the skin wasn't worth it then. Now the 3900 RP isn't worth one skin."
    3. "You got our hopes up and now it was pointless. You teased us with the prospect of a new skin and then took it away."

    All of these arguments are valid, but some more so than others, and that's what we have to look at. I would like to preface this with saying that I OWN GOTH ANNIE, do not say that I don't know where the owners are coming from.

    For the first group, please keep in mind that the Goth Annie skin is NOT exclusive, but exclusive to the bundle, or basically exclusive to the 3900 RP pricetag. What this means is that the skin has never been a "limited edition skin", it has always been available for those willing to pay for it.

    For the second group, understand where the first group is coming from, they payed a large amount of money for something and are worried that other people are going to get it for less and that it will become less special. (This may seem like a greedy perspective, and perhaps it is, but they still have a point.)

    Now that both positions have been laid out in a civilized manner, let's look at what should be done. From my point of view, and remember that I am a Goth Annie owner, I view the limited release of Goth Annie in the store as nothing more than a sale. A big sale, but a sale nonetheless. If Riot were discussing releasing it as a full time separate item in the shop then I would be fervently against it, but they're not, they're discussing a temporary price reduction in honor of Annie's rework. For people to complain that other people are getting it for cheaper than they are, well that's just selfish in my opinion. Complaining about this sale is only slightly different than complaining about a skin going on sale the week after you bought it for full price. I understand that there is another level considering it's "bundle exclusive" but other than that I see no difference. Also, the fact that Riot has now falsely gotten the hopes of many players up has an impact as well. I don't personally believe that the current owners of the 3900 RP bundle outnumbers the players who were looking forward to buying Goth Annie over the next 10 days, and that is based on the fact that I've only seen 2 or 3 people with the skin in the 1000+ LoL games I've played. I think that it just seems like a majority because the upset players were more inclined to comment than the players who were ok with it, myself being included. (I was fine with it but left no comment, I actually thought it was a good move on Riot's part.)

    So to some everything up, I respect both sides of the argument, but I don't think that a 10 day sale, and it is a sale, is as ground-breaking as many players are making it out to be. I think the knee jerk reaction on Riot's part to change their mind was a big mistake because it left many players disappointed. I do, however, feel that bundle owners should get a little something to compensate them for owning the bundle as opposed to buying the skin separately. Perhaps a little bow on the Goth Annies purchased with the bundle's heads while the ones on sale have no bow. I don't know, I'm sure Riot could figure something out.

    What do you think? Please vote in the poll attached and tell me in a civilized manner via the response section. Thanks a lot for reading and good luck on the Fields of Justice!
  • I wanted to speak about this for a moment but haven't been able to due to work. The OP seems pretty fair and constructive, so this is a good active place for me to post.

    I'm more or less to blame for the skin being put up for a temporary sale. I, and many others in the office, were surprised at just how awesome the skin was turning out during her visual update. From my background on the store, I knew that the skin had always been available for purchase and had never been specifically marked as limited or legacy.

    That said to me that we had an opportunity to give players access to something awesome. I felt that the full bundle price was prohibitive (3900 RP) for this skin. So I reached out to Hippalus and a few others and suggested that we look for a way to give players a chance to get the skin on its own. Exactly as his post said- the goal was to make the skin awesome and provide a reasonable way to get it.

    I don't have any weight on whether we sell it beyond that initial suggestion, nor am I looking to overturn the decision made. I just thought you guys might want some info on why the decision was made to make it available in the first place.

    For what it's worth, I understand both sides of the argument here. The original idea was to be player focused and the current stance is intended to be player focused. In that regard, I'm satisfied either way.
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    Originally Posted by DominatorV4 View Post
    So is it going to stay exclusive to the bundle or not?
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    Like I said, I don't have any weight there either way. I can't speak to it.

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    Originally Posted by namblagambla View Post
    thanks for attempting to do something cool for us, at least
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    It's not so much about cooling people down as it is providing an explanation. I think information is a good thing.
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    Originally Posted by Miserabilia View Post
    It's a dangerous game you play, posting here.
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    I'm not scared to speak up about what I've done or what I believe in. I care less about what the community thinks about me and more about what's right for the community. If that makes me unpopular I'm cool with that, so long as at the end of the day I've made things better in general.

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    Originally Posted by SugĂ rFreeMints View Post
    Well good intentions without any considerations would create chaos and distrust..
    at least you guys should discussed with prev bundle buyer and thinking something to compensate us before make a bold announcement about the sale.
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    Interestingly enough, I own a physical copy of the game from before I even considered working here. It comes with the bundle contents. I had spoken to others about this, but you may be right- that's not a very large sample size. Something to learn from.
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    Originally Posted by TheMallen View Post
    Ames why not just discount the bundle for however many champions you own out of it?
    You're still respecting that people need to buy it, but it doesn't make sense to pay for copies of champions that you can't use.
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    Somewhat unrelated, but is that something you think we should be doing? Many companies don't do this, but as one of the people who pushed for self-service refunds the hardest, I clearly don't think we have to do things like other companies.
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    Originally Posted by NyokoSilent View Post
    Please take a look at this link. It's a poll made and well organized and it would be nice to get a red post about it.

    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3065107
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    It's been seen, but for now I'd rather focus on one thread- it's late and I'm doing some other things. Splitting my attention would most likely cause both to suffer. Polls like that are useful, at least in how we make some future decisions.

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    Originally Posted by Reality Bytez View Post
    So you're saying that you personally paid almost 4k or whatever RP for one skin? None of the champions or anything else contained in that bundle had any relevance?
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    I think you quoted the wrong thing, but that's fine. No, that's not why I bought it. Nor do I think that was the intent of the bundle. But I respect that you or others may have.

    And just to be completely honest, I actually got the physical copy (with the bundle in question) three times. It's a good deal for new players, which I and my friends were.
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    Originally Posted by Cytus View Post
    Riot Ames, ... With that being said, do limited skins have any meaning anymore? ...
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    Yes. We made a commitment on Limited skins specifically that we would not sell those. We intend to honor that. Legacy skins are not limited- our commitment there is that they are not always available for purchase, but that we may, at our discretion, sell them again.

    Goth Annie was neither of those. But, the perception was that she was exclusive to the bundle. I suspect that is why Hippalus decided not to sell it separately.

    edit: quote fail
  • GOOD LORD MAN. We JUST left the office and here you are being all explainy and rational. Everyone, take note. RiotAmes is a stellar dude. He's a pleasure to work with and his tone, demeanor, and coolheadedness is even more powerful in person. He manages a whole lot with his responsibilities on Store and managing us goofballs on Relaunch. I read all of these posts in his calm and thoughtful tone.

    Good Guy RiotAmes.
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    Originally Posted by Kijitow View Post
    Was this ever actually stated anywhere? I assume not, given your initial idea.
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    As others have pointed out, it seems we said on the forums that it was exclusive to the bundle.

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    Originally Posted by ToadKillerDog7 View Post
    But again, I'm looking at the bundle RIGHT now in the client. And NOWHERE within it does it mention ANYTHING About that skin being exclusive to that bundle. A new player would have no idea of this fact.
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    Not in the bundle, and a new player would not be aware of this, you are correct on both accounts. But to all of our players, this is not the case.

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    Originally Posted by Cytus View Post
    So would it be safe to say the 4 bundle skins, Human Ryze, Black Alistar, Silver Kayle, and Goth Annie are in a special class of their own?
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    That's possible. I'm not the person to make a definitive statement on that, but our current stance seems to suggest it.

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    Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
    .. Good Guy RiotAmes.
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    I don't know what you want, but I'm on to you. Go to bed. (And thanks.)

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    Originally Posted by Sephrinx View Post
    You own a physical copy of league of legends?

    wut?
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    Get on my level. Pictures of the physical copy (but not mine) below.
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    Originally Posted by Xenolithium View Post
    I bought Festive Maokai for SS11. He was put on sale for SS12. Wasn't mad. I was more mad that they didn't make Gingerbread Singed.
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    Someone said 'Christmas Eve' the other day and I facepalmed at the missed opportunity.

    One day.