These Riot posts telling people to ignore pick order are doing massive harm.

  • Whether or not you believe its right you are doing harm to the playerbase saying pick order doesn't matter.

    Before we had a general understanding that if you ignored pick order you could be reporeted and banned. Generally people would just accept it and move on.

    Now it's incredibly common to see people saying "NO RIOT SAYS PICK ORDER DOESN'T MATTER!" and trolling if they don't get what they want. REGARDLESS of if you think it's RIGHT for people at the highest pick to get whatever they want it keeps a natural order amongst the community. You're just saying "rules are out" and not expecting people to go hog wild over it.

    Edit 1: All the responses saying "well I had success giving up mid to fourth pick because I knew he'd be a better mid than a support" shows the entire point. That's on you. YOU break the chain of command to allow the lower picks to have what they want. Because you have the power. You must assume that first pick has a monopoly on picks and that he may do whatever the hell he wants with them. Once you get past that you are then allowed to, as first pick or second pick or whatever pick, give up your rights for a lower pick. But to say from the get go "well third pick should be allowed to call a lane and you should have to give it to them" is WRONG. Riot should be asserting here that it is a CHOICE to give up control. Not a right, not a privilege of the LOWERS picks, but the right and the privilege of the HIGHER pick to give up their control.

    That is what should be emphasized. If I'm third pick and I say "I suck at everything but mid" then it's on to my higher pick overlords to decide whether or not I get that position. I do not default in to it because "herp derp I said I suck at support so I'll just have to support annie!" I get it only because the tyrants that reign over the higher picks allow it. The entire pick order is an elaborate hazing process as is, and that's what makes it work. Some games I get to be high rank and with my golden scepter I get to decide the fate of the lower picks, and some games I'm lower pick and my fate is decided apon. That's order whether you like it or not.

    I'll probably write more about this next week on my reign of gaming blog, but I think I have the gist right there. Ranked draft is a hazing process where we take turns hazing each other, and that fragile social construct is all that keeps us from complete anarchy.

    And to every red saying "I went up three sizes three sizes that day with my niceness!" I got Diamond 1 by being a complete emotionless *******. So no, being nice does not work for everyone. In fact despite popular belief many people don't need hugs, they need a good kick in the ass.
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    Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
    Whether or not you believe its right you are doing harm to the playerbase saying pick order doesn't matter.

    Before we had a general understanding that if you ignored pick order you could be reporeted and banned. Generally people would just accept it and move on.

    Now it's incredibly common to see people saying "NO RIOT SAYS PICK ORDER DOESN'T MATTER!" and trolling if they don't get what they want. REGARDLESS of if you think it's RIGHT for people at the highest pick to get whatever they want it keeps a natural order amongst the community. You're just saying "rules are out" and not expecting people to go hog wild over it.
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    I don't think Riot has an official stance on this issue (I could be wrong). We understand the value in both pick order and calling, but ultimately it's up to the group how they want to resolve those conflicts.

    On the one hand, this is a game and you're trying to play it to have the most fun you can, but it's also a team based competitive experience. Endorsing one side will be extremely alienating to the other.

    Being a diamond player gives you a different perspective on the issue, and we have to be sensitive to the player base in total.
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    Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
    Whether or not you believe its right you are doing harm to the playerbase saying pick order doesn't matter.

    Before we had a general understanding that if you ignored pick order you could be reporeted and banned. Generally people would just accept it and move on.

    Now it's incredibly common to see people saying "NO RIOT SAYS PICK ORDER DOESN'T MATTER!" and trolling if they don't get what they want. REGARDLESS of if you think it's RIGHT for people at the highest pick to get whatever they want it keeps a natural order amongst the community. You're just saying "rules are out" and not expecting people to go hog wild over it.
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    Is this in response to me saying that communication, compromise, and flexibility are the most important things for the team to do to coordinate champion selections, and how that is more important than pick order or a typing race?

    If that is the case, I don't think trolling to get what they want is in any way communication and compromise.
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    Originally Posted by smokeyUS View Post
    So are you saying we should have the same standards in normals as we do in ranked? Their needs to be some sort of structure the community can be guided by.
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    I have faith that our community is mature enough to discover that talking to the other players and working things out together is the best strategy.
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    Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
    I think it's being FAR too lenient to be having so many posts by Riot saying "well you should compromise and bla bla" when you're trying to compromise with people who will every time they're last pick just say "I have no idea how to play support if I play support I'll play annie because I Can't support." At a certain point you have to say "this is a draft, if you wanted to BS around there are other queues for that, this is malicious bannable behavior."

    Instead of the current trend of Riot posts which tell us to work with these people. Because these people read the riot posts and say "he's right, I'm entitled to pick what I want!"
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    How well do you think someone who claims to be terrible at support will do at support? Do you really want to have that person playing their worst role?

    Let me give an example for those who want a structured system.

    Person 1 and 2 call mid. Here is the right thing to do. Ask each other what other roles they are good at. Decide together which one should play mid, considering team composition and counter picking. If one of the players states a role that has not yet been filled as a secondary role they are good at, then this becomes easy.
  • The reality is, we would need to make structural changes to the game flow to enforce either side. It would be dumb to take a stance on this issue but still allow people to operate as if that stance did not exist.

    It's not like we fundamentally agree there should be confusion and anarchy every champion select. We agree it's not fun to "negotiate" fun.
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    Originally Posted by TankyTrap View Post
    Yes but If I look up their game history to compare the 2 people and person 1 his higher in rating and skill, they should get mid by default because theyre a better player and you play this game to WIN.
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    Internet stalking is really creepy. Every time someone looks up another player, it get creeped out.
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    Originally Posted by kreepoto View Post
    tell that to the bronze and silver players :/
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    I'm bronze 2, and work out with other people who want to jungle the roles, and we have never had 2 junglers or someone being forced into something. Every time it's been a happy communication that led to a friendly game with better teamwork for it.
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    Originally Posted by Swaggotron View Post
    Not gonna happen. I agree with you and wish it was like that, but it's not and never will be. People dunno how to swallow they pride or Epen for the rest of the team. Darned if u do, darned if you don't. Where there is a system, there is a group or morons trying to destroy it.
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    YOU can make it happen, next time someone wants the same role as you.
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    Originally Posted by AmNot Supporting View Post
    We can't know the ins and outs of every person who comes into solo que with us. What I do know, is that I'm 4 picks ahead of the guy who is screaming 'TOP OR AFK', yet because he is unwilling to compromise, I am forced to acquiesce my best role on the chance that someone might, or might not be better at it than I am?
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    It's not only about whether he's better at top than you. It's about if him at top and you somewhere else is in total a better combination than you top and him somewhere else. Looking at which of you is better top is the same problem as saying X champion is better top than jungle. It's not a question of are they better top or jungle, it's a question of if they are not top, is there a champion to fill top that is better at it, and also if they are jungle, are they better than some other champion there? It's opportunity cost. You have to think about what you are and aren't getting with the choice, not just 1 part of it.

    Did I explain this well? I think I may have clouded it up.