The time is 8 minutes in. Top is 0-7. ADC is 0-4. Support is 0-5. Jungle is 1-5.

  • You are 1-0 beating your lane opponent in mid with more CS.

    Your allies at Top and Bot are constantly overextended, and the enemy has warded dragon, as well as their own jungle to ensure you can't roam bot without being seen (You are on purple side). Top has a ward at the river bush and tri.

    What do you do?
  • It feels like you're looking for a very specific answer here ;p

    A score of 2-21 at 8 minutes is... a little crazy, but just some food for thought...

    When a lot of players fall behind in lane, they usually try to compensate by playing overly aggressive or trying to make plays in order to catch up. Unfortunately, when you're behind and playing aggressive, it's VERY easy to muck up - thus falling even further behind. The better thing to do when you're behind is to play safe and force your opponent to make risky / aggressive plays. Players tend to believe that when they're ahead, they NEED to continue stomping, so playing safe against that makes them want to play even more aggressively.

    Sometimes it's hard to say (seeing a teammate consistently die within a few minutes of returning to lane because they want to catch up is frustrating), but it really does help if you just let your teammate know that they shouldn't feel pressured to make a play or they NEED to catch up. League's a team game (yadda yadda), and confidence is infectious - let your teammates know you still have some shred of confidence in them and they might (MIGHT) surprise you.

    Or they'll die more. But that's a conclusion that already seems to be happening.

    Barring all of that, you're going to be in this game for another 12 minutes, you might as well take charge and try to scrap a win out of it. Call squishy targets, and push lanes. Setting up a gank when your other lanes are so far behind usually results in your own death, so pushing lanes at least helps with the global gold and EXP.

    If all else fails, I tell bad jokes.

    What's orange and sounds like a parrot?
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    Originally Posted by Take the Draw View Post
    Are you Pwyff of Gameriot fame? If so, congrats on your position.
    In another age, yes I moved on to video game journalism from Gameriot and then here. Thanks!
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    Originally Posted by elBOOBOO View Post
    what is your avatar , I can seem to figure it out
    It's one of the crazy egg dragons from the bottom of Dragon Trainer Lulu's splash art. I actually wanted the main crazy egg dragon (bottom right) but someone had taken it ahead of me. WHO DOES THAT?

    I tried to negotiate for the egg dragon's release but he was unwavering in his stance. At some point I'll need to... negotiate harder.

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    Originally Posted by Larias View Post
    Do I know you, Pwyff?
    I've been playing League of Legends all the way back to the alpha and closed beta, actually. I do remember you! We played a few premades back in the summer of '09 against the devs (I mostly played Annie / Anivia / Zilean when Mejais stole mana and only lost one stack per death, etc, etc).

    I think you can google some of my way old posts when we would all do our five point feedback threads and I complained about the store UI every time.

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    Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
    I wish Riot would do this for us, make it private or whatever, I'd really like to know. It would give us a sense of where we truly belong and what to work on.

    If you're going 1/2/24 with Taric and losing then you may want to take a more carry role because you're truly doing your job, but you aren't winning.

    But if you're consistently ADC and averaging 8/3/4 then Riot has a bug in their match making and you may have to find that DUO.

    I think what most people will find, especially after 100 games, is that either they are often playing the wrong champs if they are losing too much, and that their wins and losses is far more linked to their skill set than they think.

    But if we had this tracking system we could more easily tell exactly where we are lacking and where we are strong rather than "feeling" where we're at. At work when we track people's performance almost everyone believes they are far higher than they are when the results are shown to them, no one seems to notice the 15 ten minute "bathroom/drink breaks" in their day, but if you ask them to come back from lunch 1 minute early they notice every second.
    This is actually an interesting discussion, although I think it basically leads to the same conclusion: the Dunning Kruger effect ( Basically where players just can't recognize that skill disparity between them and more skilled players ("Oh I would be Diamond ranked if I didn't have such bad teammates").

    Do you think having more statistical evidence of "skill" would help players recognize and act on where they need to improve?

    Personally speaking, I used to do a lot of competitive gaming (World of Warcraft 3v3 arena, first-person shooters), and I always did mini-retrospectives after most losses / wins, where I would figure out what I, specifically, did wrong.

    Not "I could have won if my teammates did this," but literally the assumption that my teammates will never improve and that the only thing I can do is make better personal decisions per game.

    If we gave more statistical evidence to players, would the ones who previously couldn't recognize their weaknesses now start recognizing them? Or, do you think they would see their low KDA / creep score, and they would instantly think "Oh it's because my support kept stealing my kills and my jungler never ganked, so this stat is low."

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    Originally Posted by ghostbar View Post
    I have no misconceptions about my skill level. and I accept a share of the blame in nearly every loss I suffer. my goal in collecting the statistics isnt to prove how good Iam and how bad my teammates are, its to compare how many feeders/afks I am teamed with vs how many my opponents have over the course of 100 matches.

    the red post following yours implies dunning-kruger (fotm buzz-word) plays a role in my plan to collect statistics. no. its more of a look at matchmaking than indivuduals' skill.

    again, not blaming bad teammates for my losses. just want to see how much parity there isin matchmaking. but if I know this board, the mouthbreathing herd will downvote and berate. league of legends!
    I'm getting two different vibes here. You're suggesting that the number of feeders / AFKs on a team is an indication of matchmaking parity when it's more of a individual thing. Heck, KDA and AFK percentage are both not used in who you get matched with, so using a random statistic to measure matchmaking parity is a little weird.

    I'll position this a different way: what measurable statistic do you think should be used in creating matchmaking parity that you don't see currently? As in, what will you be measuring to indicate that there isn't matchmaking parity?
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    Originally Posted by Quadrakill Amumu View Post
    You are telling this joke all wrong. It's supposed to be:

    What's orange and green and walks like a carrot?
    A carrot.
    Oh my lawd. I like this. I like this a lot. Even if this is a typo and you meant to say "What's orange and green and walks like a Parrot?"

    In exchange:

    A polar bear walks into a bar and says, "I'd like a Gin........... and Tonic."
    The bartender asks, "Why the long pause?"
    The polar bear looks down, confused, and says, "I dunno, I was born with them."
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    Originally Posted by RacoonHail View Post
    Statistical data being available to everyone in sports is a growing trend interesting results so far.

    Baseball obviously gives itself to mathematical analysis and breakdowns as it is a single player game disguised as a team sport, allowing coaches and teams to reduce players to numbers and then plug them in for best results. The result? A revolution in the sport and practically all of the teams do this now.

    Basketball is just beginning this and currently have more data than things to do with that data, but it has allowed certain teams to build very good rosters and others to build good rosters out of random parts.

    Football is also using statistical data to evaluate players, though again they are just starting and with roster sizes so big it has not become a major factor, yet...

    So why not for eSports? If a player can see their full history, who they win with, what team comps they win with, how much they lose buy (in gold, kills etc), suddenly they can improve themselves if they see fit to. Those that won't use it will probably start losing more often, but it would be absolutely fascinating and a great way to determine what champions and what roles you are actually innately good at with statistical proof to prove that.

    For example, I suspect I am a good support, playing best with Taric, Alistar, and Sona suggesting I prefer an aggressive kill lane play style as a support. I have no proof of this though because I have not actually tracked my win/loss record with those champions. I am definitely going to start now and see if that helps me better myself, but it would be nice if Riot provided that info too.

    Too long for you??
    Riot needs to give us the DATA!
    You're definitely pushing the discussion in the right way - these are probably the best kind of statistics that really savvy-minded players (I'll come back to this) can use to improve. At this point, however, the question then goes to just how much effort needs to go into doing something like this. Pulling all of these statistics from millions of players, parsing them, presenting them in a variety of ways, hosting that information, etc. I actually don't know if there are or aren't technological limitations here (dentist doing a surgeon's work, etc), but yeah.

    Also Baseball / Hockey / Basketball are all about two teams playing with equal positions and equal goals. In League of Legends you have uniquely different champions that do uniquely different things, all joining team compositions that are trying to accomplish different goals (stall teams, push teams, objective focused teams, skirmish teams, roam teams). You can get a small measure of a hockey goalie's worth by his GAA and Save % because every goalie is subjected to those same statistics equally (although even then you take into account a goalie's defencemen, etc). How does a support even get that sort of statistical analysis? How do you compare?

    On the other hand, what if we brought this to the crux of the problem: improvement. Imagine if a hockey player (I'm Canadian, this is my go-to reference point) were to spend his days analyzing his hockey game statistics as opposed to doing weight training / conditioning. Would his improvement over time be equal to if he worked on his shot and physicality? Maybe not.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that it would probably (I think?) take a lot to implement some hardcore in-depth statistical tracking into League of Legends, and I feel that most players would benefit far more from learning mechanical play, general map awareness, strategy execution, team communication, and other things. So maybe resources would be better focused on helping players improve at the afore-mentioned categories


    Y'all don't know the meaning of irony. C'mon.