Since there weren't many changes this time around I decided, since season 3 jungle is coming soon, to give a throw back to my oldest surviving tier list. Remember that this is largely opinion and it is not based on the best jungle PICKS. This list is taking into account the potential of characters to jungle on their own regards to make measuring their capabilities easier.
Tier 1 – Lee Sin, Dr. Mundo, Maokai, Nunu, Skarner, Nocturne, Udyr, Shyvana, Trundle, Jarvan IV, Cho`Gath, Amumu, Shen, Nautilus, Alistar, Malphite, Hecarim, Olaf
Tier 2 –Diana, Elise, Riven, Rengar, Darius, Sejuani, Kha`Zix, Jax, Warwick, Volibear, Rammus, Shaco, Gangplank, Xin Zhao, Tryndamere, Fiddlesticks, Master Yi, Zyra, Kayle, Gragas, Wukong, Evelynn
Tier 3 – Singed, Jayce, Garen, Twitch, Galio, Fizz, Pantheon, Renekton, Rumble, Karthus, Syndra, Fiora, Twisted Fate, Janna, Blitzcrank, Kennen, Taric, Sion, Ezreal, Soraka, Cassiopeia, Lulu, Ziggs, Leona, Heimerdinger, Brand, Yorick, Mordekaiser
Tier 4 – Nasus, Katarina, Caitlyn, Corki, Veigar, Poppy, Karma, Irelia, Malzahar, Draven, Sivir, Akali, Nidalee
Tier 5 – Viktor, Graves, Varus, Orianna, Ahri, Talon, Annie, Urgot, Kog Maw, Ashe, Sona
An old tier list made at the time Renekton is below. I felt just like showing how far things have come.
Tier 1- Udyr, Shaco, Nunu, Trundle, Warwick, Master Yi, Shen
Tier 2 - Olaf, Fiddlesticks, Cho Gath, Rammus, Gragas, Irelia, Malphite
Tier 3 - Dr Mundo, Sion, Xin Zhao, Akali, Tryndamere, Evelynn, Amumu
Tier 4 - Mordekaiser, Jax, Nasus, Taric, Ryze, Pantheon, Ezreal
Tier 5 - Tristana, Corki, Malzahar, Cassiopeia, Soraka, Garen
For tiers 1 and 2 - the placement is more important towards indicating "who is better" but less so for tier 3. In tier 3, just think of it in brackets as the champions here are more flawed and harder to argue. You can say that the higher tier 3 champions are better than the lower tier 3 though. For Tier 4 and 5 it's pretty much wishy washy.
Tier 1 is based more on general all around high quality junglers. Tier 2 is based on junglers with great aspects and a few flaws but being able to fill a niche that gives them some validity. Tier 3 is taking what Tier 2 is based around and basically pushing the importance on niche a lot more. The other two tiers are just throwaways.
Some people seem to be getting confused with the ranking. It should be obvious by seeing who gets the S scores that S means higher than A. The Lane and Jungle scores give a rough look into what level of laners/junglers they can deal with. A high lane score means they high success at ganking powerful laners and a low score means they have little chance of ganking powerful laners. Amplifiers are how well they get buffed up by variables such as buffs, leashes and summoner spells.
S scoring is just some video game thing used to say things like “Oh man you are amazing” etc etc. It’s most commonly used in arcade type games.
What changed this time around-
Jayce - Too much assistance required from the team and even then he basically crumbles in the jungle. He also does need a lot of farm. Admittedly I praised him a little too much and the nerfs are starting to head his way.
Rengar - His ganking is great but the nerfs are starting to take their toll on him. As a jungler he's starting to become less appealing (less farm) and it is starting to relegate him to a tank position rather than a murder machine. Riot doesn't like assassins.
Skarner - Yeah he got nerfed but at least not to the point of useless. He went up because he's a lot more dangerous than Nocturne and pretty much will tear any other jungler apart in a 1v1 situation.
Darius - While there is some favoritism there this guy just has incredible build versatility and deals damage even when built tank. Hell if he builds damage then he deals monstrous amounts. That means if he's doing well he can become a major damage dealer for your team but if he's doing fine or a bit poorly he can fall back on conservative items. Also there are very few characters that can fight him 1v1 and he has some very grossly positive jungle match ups. There are a few junglers that cannot do anything to stop him if he finds them in their jungle. It's basically a guaranteed kill if he finds them.
Nautilus and Alistar - The combination of nerfs and the favoritism of speed junglers have brought these two down. Yes Alistar gets banned a lot but he can be a great TEAM pick but as a jungler he's pretty lackluster aside from his godlike ganks. The nerfs pretty much destroyed his ability to do things in the jungle without having his hand held and we've all seen those games where Alistar gets slapped in the jungle and then he just runs around doing very little. Nautilus is similar too. He gets easily slapped by other junglers and the nerfs (along with everyone just amassing wards) have made him less effective. Their crowd control and tankiness still carries them through the game but they were taken down in the tier list as a result of everything else.
Evelynn - Yeah she's not too bad of a jungler but man does she need to be babysat. She is so damn fragile and requires the cooperation of her teammates in order to gank successfully from the jungle. As mid she at least has two summoner spells to work with but from the jungle she either sacrifices an escape (flash) or killing power (exhaust/ignite).
Elise - This may be pre emptive but from what I've seen she's a fusion of a lot of nice things. Her level 1 needs a jump start from her team but then she takes off and is actually quite fast. Her W is wickedly strong and she has some sustain. That said her ganking is rather strong thanks to her ranged skillshot stun in combination with her spider gap closer. Her spider spells also don't cost mana.
Her ganks will work in two ways. One way is that she will walk up to her opponent and use her Q to deal damage and then use her E to stun them (or in the opposite order) then transform into a spider and close the gap and start going to town on them. The other way to gank is to run at them as a spider and close the gap with her E then become a human and get a better shot in with your E. The first gank type allows her to deal more damage and may get her a use of her stun twice though the enemy might burn their escape to avoid her first stun. On the other hand the second gank type allows her to force the enemy to burn their escapes immediately and now she has her stun in pin them down after their escapes are gone.
Then one of the best things (at least in this jungle) is that she's a functioning AP jungler. That means she's able to take a very conservative build like gold items and utility AP so she's got economics down. In short, whether she works in the lane or in the jungle better and whether she's a good champion pick or not - she will definitely work as a jungler. I don't know whether I'll prefer her over Diana yet though.


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Posted 11/8/2012 1:02:50 AMHey Stonewall, I remember you mentioning that in China (iirc), Trundle is actually fairly popular there as a Jungle pick. Do you have any sources or players I should look up to see more about their usage of him?
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Posted 11/5/2012 12:17:50 AMWhat does amplifiers mean?
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Posted 11/5/2012 3:25:38 AMWell I can't explain it as clearly than Stonewall, but an "amplifier" is something that amplifies a jungler.
For instance :
1) Blue buff (for cd and mana) and Red buff amplify a jungler, and differently according to the jungler. Blue lee sin is cool but not as cool as Blue Skarner, for instance?
2) Laners having crowd control : If you play Nautilus, Alistar, or Maokai, you sure enjoy if your laner has a stun or a slow, but that overlaps a bit your champion's abilities. I mean, you jizz way harder if you gank as a Master yi than a Nautilus, if your laner is a taric.
3) Every kind of "buff", such as Janna, TF and zilean's passive, help some junglers more or less.
I think that's what Stonewall means with "amplifiers", it s the way a champion synergises with some amplifiers you may or may not have.
I could say that long story short, the more a jungler has innate CC, the lower amplifiers benefit him, and the higher the "DPS" (can be low cd abilities too) a jungler has, the better he enjoys them.
It is also about some spells a jungler have and that can be "difficult" to land, with pre-requisites that aren't always easily met in order to land "the best" combo possible. A simple example : Jayce's melee's E is best landed to push the ennemy towards your allies, and thus it's better you can sneak from behind (with your laners slowing or sth) for you to land it in the rightest direction.
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Posted 11/3/2012 10:53:41 AMI've been playing quite a bit of Jungle Olaf lately - I think he may be a little bit underrated. I think he has been seeing a little bit of a boost in popularity too.
His clears are obviously disgustingly good, but if you run spell vamp runes / masteries on him, all i can say is WOW for sustain, and it helps his early dueling as well (Not like Olaf needs a ton of help). It also allows him to go boots / 3 start and provide a ton of early presence without any worry about being low health.
If you rush a shurelia's right after your HoG, you become even scarier.
I'm really liking him lately.
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Posted 11/1/2012 4:00:26 PMDoes anyone have any idea what's exactly changing in Season 3 jungle?
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Posted 10/27/2012 10:24:47 PMDo you think Xin Zhao has potential to go up ? I mean, Diamondprox picks him 24/7 when he cant get Lee.
Edit : Just noticed "Skarner will tear any jungler apart 1v1", haha :)
(Skarner says "I will tear them apart" when you play him)
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Posted 10/27/2012 12:26:05 PMTrundle be strong still yo, just not loved.
Damn them and that Rengar Assassin hate, I liked Assassins!
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Posted 10/27/2012 9:41:09 AMHi Stonewall,how do U feel about nocturne ? I haven't seen him in a while, and wonder why it's like this.
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Posted 10/27/2012 11:07:12 PMI'm not Stonewall nor a top elo player but I think Nocturne currently suffers from the fact that he brings very little utilty to his team IMO, and is actually a pretty squishy champion base stats wise.
If you're having a bad game as Skarner, Lee, Mundo, Udyr (..), you'll still be tanky and be useful through your utility (permaslow + suppress, kb + potential aoe knockup ult + aoe as & ms slow + shield for friends, simply being tanky / annoying, stuns..), while Noc only has 1 very unreliable CC in teamfights.
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Posted 10/28/2012 5:14:47 AMI'm not a pro neither, but I would like to give my thought too.
Nocturne "was" a snowballing champion that could assassinate targets and be fed from ganks and carry in the jungle.
The jungle was remade to be easier, which reduced Nocturne's differences with other junglers.
(He was significantly faster and more sustained than most which was a HUGE advantage at that time) and he couldn't be anymore lvl six as fast as sololaners.
Also, being "forced" to grab 1/2 gp10, with his low base stats and his inner need of forcefeeding himself, wasn't that much an help neither.
There is also the fact that there was some "powercreeping" in mobility, so many champions having dashes on top of flashes, kinda screwed his ganking and teamfighting abilities.
Then came his latest nerf which made it really clear for everyone : Nocturne wasn't fun anymore to play.
Long story short, before he could be extremly fed (both in lvl and gold advantage), but he was successively nerfed (directly or undirectly) which reduced his possibility of getting "expansive" items which allowed him to deal shitloads of damages and carry games.
He is still really good, but not as much as before, and being able to "carry" was a good part of his fun.
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Posted 10/31/2012 6:37:15 PMThis is pretty accurate to how most pros feel lately it seems. I know TSM's OddOne said Nocturne seemed just not worth playing as much lately because of pretty much these reasons. Add in the fact he's not as good, or at least safe, at counter jungling as Mundo, Nunu or Shyvana to add to his woes, as he used to be the best at that, but those three are currently top picks and all three should stomp him 1v1, or at least get away easily if they are losing.
I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.
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Posted 10/27/2012 6:48:41 AMStonewall, can you tell me why anyone in competitive play picks trundle? He seems to fit in the current meta...
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Posted 10/27/2012 8:10:05 AMI am not Stonewall apparently but i like to talk so here i go:
He is not tank but bruiser, so no he doesn´t really fit, he can build pretty much full tank after his Wriggles (i still like to build trinity if i get some lucky breaks early on) but he can´t really survive on gp/10 and support items he can do that but so does Xin (and he would be probably better that way lol).
Well let´s look what you wanna from your jungler and if Trundle have it:
-Sustain: hell yeah you can start with VS and finish your clear healthy even without leash
-Fast clear: um no he is faster then let´s say Nautilus but guys (and gals) like Mundo, Udyr and Shyv can outpace him
-Good ganks: maybe he can alost always force flash but kill ganks can be quite hard (especially now with so many dashers) but if enemy is just a bit overextended Trundle can beat him to pulp
-Good Invade/resistance: fighting trundle early on is generally stupid idea, his general speed isn´t impessive but his single target (ie buffs big creeps) is rather impressive
-CC: well, pillar... it´s one of most OP and useless skills at a same time i´ve seen it´s situational and he can´t really run exhaust imho he needs phage/FM procs badly agaisnt some (poppular) picks
- good initiation: he has his pillar which can be used as initiation but i wouldn´t call it good, it´s predictable and many times forces you to get out of your W, he´s good counter initiator but that´s bit more complicated to use (+ teams that can use counter initiation usually don´t fit Trundles playstyle)
-good transition: yeah he does that, he is like Skarner, you likes to build some dmg (already mentioned trinity but he can still do well with just full tank, his natural tankyness isn´t taht amazing so he tends to be more gold dependant then regular suppor tank
- omjective control: you can bet your ass on this one.
So he has some of things you want from your curret meta picks but he fails in other, yeah no jungler has all of this but trundle is somewhere between, you can´t use him as heavy gank jungler to jsut camp lanes, his farm time is bad and he can beat you down but he will have problems to kill you, so you can´t really use him as invader/power farmer. He also lacks any non-self utility appart from his pillar.
My personal opinion? He is awesome. He may not fit current meta that well but there are more metas then just wester passive farm and if i recall there are regions he is quite poppular.
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Posted 10/27/2012 8:41:48 AMthank you for your opinion. Anyway looking to your answer i reach a different conclusion, he fits in the current meta. Ok he maybe have some issues, but with a nice team compose he can beat the crap out of you. Just one more thing, in my opinion trundle can survive pretty well with goldp/10 and suport items, the advantage about trundle is that he can build some dmg and still be tankyness like hell (due to his ult) or he can build life and still have some utily ( Q buff and pillar). Maybe im wrong i dont know, but again, thank you for your help
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Posted 10/31/2012 6:44:13 PMYou'd be right in that he can do okay at either role still, but not exceptional. Trundle is sort of a Jack-of-all-Trades jungler, which isn't bad, but most teams want something more specialized in the category they aren't strong it. Need more damage? Shyvana/Mundo. Need more support? Lee Sin/Nunu. Need a beefy as hell tank? Malphite/Shen.
Once s3 jungle changes come in, I imagine you'll see a return of Trundle and Cho'gath jungles, as they were the old guard, and will be able to farm it up right proper and come out of jungle scarier than they do now.
I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.