Jungle Tier List - Thresh Era 2

Keep in mind one very important thing - this tier list is made to reflect which junglers (in my opinion) are the best at jungling. This is list is NOT made to dictate picks nor does it heavily reflect the competitive scene.

I believe there are too many factors to consider when it comes to who is the best jungle pick. There are too many little variables to consider that could help or break a person's argument for who the best jungle pick is. Not only that, all those little things can become big things depending on how much the individual values a certain aspect. Even a jungler who is listed in this tier list as being on a lower end of it can be a much better pick for a certain team comp (or against one) than someone that's much higher. All that stuff is situational and can be interpreted differently and so on.

However, I do feel there are some things that cannot really be debated. You can't deny things like "Shen is super slow" or "Warwick jungles at basically full health" or "Amumu is mana reliant." Things like that are clear as day and you can measure them and give them values. Sure there are some things that are ultimately overlooked but that can't be helped. So in short, this tier list is a way to organize junglers according to how well they function in the jungle role (though not completely removing team pick out of the equation) and how they stack up to one another. It is also imperative that one understand what being in each tier means.

Feel free to discuss anything in the comments below. Please be civil as well. If you find any mistakes in the aspects on the table compared to the breakdowns - please let me know. I tend to overlook somethings when I'm working on a lot of things.

Tier 1 - These junglers are basically perfect and their greatest strength(s) make their few weaknesses (if any) negligible. They can have some weakness but they tend to immensely excel at their role in the game. They have few characters that can be compared to them and they are miles above those. Only one of every certain "type" of jungler is allowed in this tier. Unless two junglers are absolutely godlike to the point of pushing all others aside, the jungler that simply outperforms the other similar jungler will be selected for this tier.

Tier 2 - These junglers are just shy of perfection but have more weaknesses than those above them. They are very good junglers and can often do their jobs very well. They are simply outdone by those above. They offer plenty to their team and contribute plenty to the jungle role.

Tier 3 - Some of these junglers can be very powerful but aren't the most well rounded. They either greatly excel at something but have issues in another aspect. Some of these junglers can be faster than the ones above them or gank better but they are weak in some crucial areas that make them situational picks in most cases. There is a certain risk when using these junglers either to themselves or to their team.

Tier 4 - Take the previous tier's issues and amplify them a bit and you have the junglers here. Basically put these junglers may or may not excel at something but end up not being able to override their current flaws. Even if there is some stuff they can excel in - other junglers are likely able to do the same with less effort or with balance in other aspects. The junglers in this tier border the line between situational and niche. They can be used but often times you could have done better even if a step above them wouldn't have been the highest step.

Tier 5 (not yet added) - Pretty much gimmicky through and through. Some of them can work but they're definitely nowhere near the best choices or even a decent choice. They're functional picks that offer some things that could be fun to mess around with.

The first tier list of Season 3

Tier 1 - Lee Sin, Olaf, Cho Gath, Dr. Mundo, Amumu, Vi, Maokai, Nocturne, Shaco
Tier 2 - Xin Zhao, Jarvan IV, Trundle, Elise, Skarner, Hecarim, Malphite, Diana, Shen, Riven
Tier 3 - Nunu, Zed, Rengar, Darius, Nautilus, Kayle, Fiddlesticks, Fizz, Kha Zix, Udyr
Tier 4 - Shyvana, Master Yi, Rammus, Gangplank, Thresh, Jax, Warwick, Tryndamere, Sejuani, Pantheon, Leona, Volibear

Not yet ranked - Karthus, Alistar, Evelyn, Singed, Wukong, Nasus, Poppy, Blitzcrank, Yorick,

Things that changed

Updated some scores - Compare the older spreadsheet so see some updated scores and fixed errors.

A debate about positions - I'm currently considering potentially giving Jarvan and Xin Zhao tier 1 spots by lowering Lee Sin lower in tier 1 and moving Maokai and Nocturne to tier 2. I haven't seen enough Shacos to really make a big assessment on whether his nerfs completely crippled him. I'm also very strongly considering Elise for potential tier 1 placement. Her sheer versatility and craziness is just obscene.

Still debating about
Cho Gath - Top of Tier 1
Xin Zhao - Tier 1
Jarvan - Tier 1
Elise - Tier 1
Lee Sin - Lower Tier 1 (probably mid tier 1)
Maokai - Tier 2
Nocturne - Tier 2
Shaco - Tier 2

Vi - She's essentially the new Skarner with conditional tankiness (though not bad). Skarner is a lot more dangerous than her early but she becomes a mid game monster. I hope people understand that she's not all that strong of a jungler early on but kicks it up to bestial godliness once she obtains her ultimate. With levels and a few items she becomes a dueling force and a high damage + high crowd control ganking machine. It's strange that Riot would nerf Skarner's ultimate but then release a champion that does exactly the same. Basically put - her blinking powers and her inescapable ultimate gave her the boost to replace Skarner.

Now I know I had her in tier 3 in the last iteration but I did have her in tier 1 in the one before that. I was hasty in both situations. I put her up because her flair (with the ultimate) was so awesome and I got ahead of myself. Then I took her down because her earlier levels weren't impressive and I kept getting countered or countering other Vi junglers. I tried her again recently (after coaxing from people) and found out the best way to manage her early game in order to abuse her overpowered mid game.

Skarner - Vi took his place!

Xin Zhao - Went up after I started facing more Xin Zhaos. The use of his ultimate just impressed me and shot up his transition scores. The initiating power from it is simply game winning. I didn't pay attention to its use in conjunction with a proper follow up. It mostly nullifies the enemy's positioning and can potentially give a lot of breathing room for the follow up. In some cases it can be a purely safe initiation with no draw backs.

Rammus - He still has his problems but he's definitely someone that can be used in solo queue. He can bypass wards but I feel that you might as well use a champion like Hecarim who's all around better.

Jarvan IV - Well I've begun to level Q first than E now. It used to be up to the player but Q's armor tearing powers has become much more valuable in this meta. Damage Jarvan has definitely become a much stronger jungler thanks to these changes. Basically put - level Q and witness some brutal power from Jarvan at the expense of some team buffs. The fact that this knowledge doesn't detract from other Jarvan builds but increases any offensive focused Jarvan builds ends up raising his tier position. The fact that it's very valuable to the meta helps too.

Fizz

Speed B - Fizz is about average to decent speed as a jungler. He starts off a bit on the slower side but can later maintain a good speed without the use of items and just relying on ranks of his W.

Resilience D+ - This is probably Fizz's biggest weakness and why he's passed up as a jungler. He's a pretty risky jungler. He can't deal with most forms of harassment without some of his critical traits falling behind. With a low resilience score you can assume, if harassed, his sustain, ganking and whatnot all take a hit in some form. In this case, his speed and health sustain dwindle considerably early that he is unable to gank. A ganking jungler (especially an assassin) not being able to gank will put them further behind in the game especially someone as item dependent (when it comes to kill champions) like Fizz.

Build B+ - Well first off he gets the AP jungler build versatility right off the bat. He also has some unique builds for himself that are quite effective. He has variations of the same "purpose" builds like AS, AD, AP bruiser or assassin. He can itemize in different ways to achieve each build as well. He loses major points though in that he has a pretty steep gold requirement that he has issues farming (in the jungle) unless he murdered a few people.

Sustain C+ - He has no mana issues at all really despite being a mana champion. All he really has to do is activate his W and right click. He doesn't have health sustain and that does hurt him but it eventually gets to the point where his W just rends the main target before it deals any damage.

Ganking B/S - This is Fizz's greatest strength. His pre 6 ganking is a basic double gap closing high damage gank but, if properly done, can be used as a disengage. It allows for some nifty tower diving stunts but very risky even then. He would have scored better if he had reliable CC. Once he obtains his ultimate he becomes one of the strongest jungle gankers in the game. Basically put - it's a ranged initiation AoE crowd control. I don't even have to say much beyond that. It has high range too! It loses points in that it gives the enemy a big reaction time to it and its cooldown is unforgiving.

Dueling B+ - This one is hard to rate for Fizz. On one hand he can outmaneuver a lot of characters and his auto attacks hurt but on another, the other dueling junglers just outright butcher people in fights. Fizz's dueling (in lane) comes from the fact that he makes trading difficult and grinds people down. However the jungle is a different beast. The best duelists will probably hit Fizz harder than he is even with his powers of avoiding trade and he won't have the time to pull those shenanigans anyways before someone comes in to help their teammate.

Invasion B - He's an escape artist so he makes this easy. Not much else to say than that. Go in, steal a big camp and then waddle away.

Transition B - It's the case with all assassins. They get to snipe squishies in most cases though if not properly farmed they may have to consider the whole "1 for 1" trading thing. Fizz has a better transition than a few other assassins because his ultimate allows him to initiate for this team. It's not the best substitute for a real initiation tool but it's something. His gold dependency keeps him from getting a better score too.

Thresh

Speed D+ - He's slow and never gets better. I mean you can try building him AD Thresh in the jungle and pad his speed but even then it's on the slower side.

Resilience D+ - The combination of slow jungling and poor immediate sustain does him in. He's a support character so he can eventually recover naturally but it can get to the point where he stops functioning. Shen, while suffering even slower speed, at least has super sustain and a way to make up for his poor speed with his ultimate. Thresh has nothing like that and can be removed as a jungle factor quite easily.

Build S - Well for starters he's a support character so no matter what you build on him he'll still serve his purpose. Anything you get on him just adds to him in some way and doesn't detract. What makes him even better is that he gets free stats from murdering the monsters! Basically put - the guy his infinite build options thanks to his passive and his support nature.

Sustain C* - He has no health sustain early. He keeps his jungle pace (though of course it's slow) and never really needs mana. The thing about his sustain is that it gets better the more souls he gets. It gets to the point where the monsters just don't do anything to him. The strength of his sustain is never immediate and it depends on how many souls he managed to obtain.

Ganking A+/S - He's a CC bot and has a ranged pull. Not many can boast that. Not much to say other than the fact that he packs tons of ways of locking a person down. He later obtains his ultimate which boosts his crowd control even further. He fails to obtain the highest core due to the difficulty of using his crowd control.

Dueling D+ - Even with that fabled AD initial death AA from Thresh - he won't be winning any jungle duels. Not only is he easy to outmaneuver but he simply can't go head to head in a slugfest.

Invasion D+ - Unless it's basically handed to you - don't.

Transition S - He's a support so his transition will be good pretty much regardless of what happens. His late game is just ungodly and potentially the best out of any other support aside from probably Leona's late game. He becomes super tanky, has a crap ton of CC and actually deals respectable damage for a support. His broad itemization options (thanks to his passive) allows him to utilize gimmick builds without much drawbacks to either increase his damage or his utility with auras and active items.

Follow me on twitter
https://twitter.com/stonewall008

Follow me on Facebook too!
http://www.facebook.com/Stonewall008

166

Comments

  • #127 Horuntar

    Quote from Tribalmind56 »

    I love how you resort to insults when you can't win your point, and still refuse to actually back up your claims.  I really couldn't care less if this was about trundle or any other champ I just want you to actually PROVE YOUR POINT! Instead of quoting things and trying to sound like you know what you're talking about actually prove it!  I'm fighting you because I hate people who just make an assumption based on a quick look and then do their absolute best to convince everyone they're right when they can't backup what they say.

    If you can PROVE me wrong then I will take everything back, heck I'll stop bothering you all together I might even complement you on your well put forward argument but as of yet all I see is you arguing with no proof to back up your claims, no effort to explain why it's so bad.

    No gap closer? he has a slow with a wall not to mention increase MS. Just because he can't 'jump' doesn't mean he cant close gaps efficiently....(otherwise would consider Hecarim and Rammus as having no gap closers?)

    No AOE? True! but why does a jungler need AOE? If he clears well enough with single target he's fine.  It's not like you really need AOE for ganks, there is often only one enemy..

    No ranged damage?  Xin Zhao, SkarnerShen ,  JaxTryndamerePantheonVolibear.. how much range do these guys have? (ignoring global ults, they aren't really 'ranged' they're 'hey I'm attacking you in 2.whatever seconds!')

    No hard CC.. OlafDr. MundoNunu, Zed,  DariusKayle, Diana.. need I go on?

    No burst? Rabid bite + contaminate gives you some damage.. besides damage over time is still decent look at Naut, Rammus, Amumu... junglers are there to help the laners get kills, they don't have to have burst!

    Sub par ganks? Miss use your abilities on any champs you'll get that (amumu & Lee sin are great examples).  At least with him there's a wall in the way for the enemy to get around regardless so the laner can get in more damage while they try to escape.

    You also missed sustain which is very important in the jungle!  Trundle is built for sustain!

    Don't forget what that ult can do to a one tank team! There's your late game usefulness, steal their abilities and stack it on yourself.

    Now with that said please show your proof..

    I gave you a lot of proof. You're just rejecting it.

    Sigh, alright then. The wall, is really not that great, and it itself doesn't increase MS, its his W. So right there he requires 2 moves just to even THINK about initiating to do some sub optimal damage.

    No AoE
    AoE is important for mid-late game transitions in team fights...do you only play for 8 minutes until you feed so hard you quit, AoE is always important. Not to mention clearing creep waves later on sure does take a long time clubbing 1 minion at a time.

    So your first comparison, Rammus, who while not having a legitmate gap closer, is INSANELY fast. And gets a knock up, and has a taunt. So, hes nothing like Rammus.

    Hecarim, clearly you're smoking your breakfast, wtf is Hecarims ult? Enough said. Oh hes also get a knockback as well. So, hes also got some "CC" like things built in.

    Your points are shut down.

    Now on to ranged damage.

    XZ - charge, has a range, with a built in slow and a gap closer all in one and then hes got knock up to boot. Point shutdown.

    Skarner- Fracture? Clearly you don't know your champions, I'm seeing a pattern.
    Shen - Q, plus E, both ranged, ones a gap closer with a built in taunt. Again, wtf man, did you even think before posting?
    Jax-Has a jump that can be compiled with an attack steroid and an aoe stun. Again, you fail.
    Tryndamere-Has a spin, that can get through walls...ffs..you really didn't think, why am I even still writing.
    Pantheon, fuckin seriously. A jump that stuns, a spear that does a guarnteed crit to low health targets, a move that hits in a rather nicely sized cone, and his fucking ultimate..seriously. Think more. And you say I haven't proved anything lol, if anything you're proving how bad you are all on your own, do you even play this game?
    Volibear- Oh wait, maybe you did, you finally got 1 right.

    No hard CC

    Well to start off with your first 3 already, they all ranged permanent slows, which is soft CC, but its fucking permanent...
    Zed, has a ranged shadow that can deal damage and slow, and get over walls, and gives vision. Zed has enough damage and an amazing kit and a gap closer, so... he doesn't really need hard CC.
    Darius, has an aoe pull in.. thats crowd control. And I would consider knock ups, backs, or pull ins hard cc.
    Kayle, has a single target slow as well as a ranged attack that procs FM..again, soft CC. Kayles strength is in her E and her ultimate.
    Diana, aoe pull in that slows...crowd control. And a shield, and an amazing gap closer. God you're bad.

    No burst
    Rammus, Naut and Amumu all have amazing CC, they don't need to be as reliant on burst. Two have gap closers and aoe slow or complete cc. Fuck dude.. you really don't play this game I don't think.

    Sub Par Ganks
    This is just dumb, its nothing like amumu or lee sin, they have skill shots, I'd hardly call his pillar a skill shot. It's pretty easy to set up but as a wall itself is rather small and therefore it doesn't do a very good job of splitting up. All you can essentially do is make them have to walk around it which is done pretty easy as well.

    SustainWhile trundle does have sustain, it's really not all that great. 2% really isn't all that much to be honest. Example - average monster dies and has about 1000 health, you get 20hp back...thats really not all that great at all in terms of sustain. Sure maybe if you club 1 by 1 through a huge minion wave or something but odds are that won't be happening too often, especially early game.

    And again, his ult has melee range, and really just makes you a bit more tanky while making them less tanky only by stats.
    I feel I have addressed pretty much everything about your argument and justified time and time again how you have a lot of misconceptions you have about trundles comparison to other junglers and its quite obvious that he is in no way a strong competitive pick.

    Last edited by Horuntar: 2/15/2013 5:00:23 PM
  • #131 Tribalmind56

    On that I'll concede, but really why not type something as detailed as that in the first place.  I'll admit some of those champs I haven't played (don't know what I was thinking on Hec though that was just stupid of me..) so I'm not that familiar with their abilities. 

    I still see that wall as being useful but you have a point in comparison to other CC it isn't as great. But anivia and karthus' walls are considered amazing so why is this one so much worse...?

    To be honest this is the type of argument I wanted to read, simply saying 'they suck' only makes you look like a jerk. These last two posts? (aside from the insults, you could be less rude) I have got to say you have put it clearly and it only took 5 days to get it out of you?

    Thank you, now I can consider this when choosing jungle champs..

    Just a couple of extra questions/points:

    1.  Why would you not consider his pillar a skill shot? It's placement is what will win or loose the you the gank.. I look at it like Zigg's minefield, is that a skill shot?

    2. His abilities are all debuffs or buffs, they all rely on weakening or strengthening respectively so they are used in a different way to most ganking styles. I guess that's why it's been so hard to explain his gameplay and see his weaknesses/strengths.  Perhaps his is a unique jungle style like shaco?

    3. You say AOE is useful in team fights and that's true but how does that apply to junglers specifically? That's the same for any champ so, why should it be a judging point on junglers? You mention camp clearing but compared to slower champs like Shen he clears quickly so AOE isn't much of a judging point there.

  • #134 Horuntar

    Because thats just too much to type for no decent reason. All these things should be relatively obvious if you're any sort of a consistent jungler with a modest amount of experience in the role. You didn't exactly present yourself in a, please teach me sort of fashion as opposed to the, I'm gonna be a little shit and just say you're wrong because I don't know what I'm talking about sort of attitude.

    Anivia and Karthus walls are amazing because
    Anivia: Her wall gets bigger as you level it, therefore it can completely block off routes to get away or trap people.
    Karthus has a debuff and a very potent slow.
    By comparison, trundles pillar only increases in slow magnitude, and nothing else. It has no stat debuff, and it doesn't get bigger in size. I wouldn't even call it a wall. Its a pillar.

    Q1: I would say its a semi skill shot at best. You're not aiming it at the enemy to deal damage, your positioning the pillar to block them as best it can, which ultimately isn't very good because of its consistently small size. The best it can really do is cut someone of slightly, at best, by putting it right around a corner, but its really easy to get around because it is just too small to be an effective wall.

    Q2: It's not really like shaco at all to be honest. All shacos move are offensive and do damage. One makes you invisible, one causes a permanent slow, and the other has a fear thats great for big buffs and ganks, the other a clone which is very effective.

    While trundles moves do buff him, they're only buffing him. An entirely melee based champion who must be in very very close range to do any of that buffed damage. So, its really not all that useful. He's just outdated I think. Maybe once upon a time he was good, but his kit is just really ineffective when coupled with his attack range.

    Q3:Well you could simply say that again as if it is important for all champions of all roles, why WOULDN'T it be important for a jungler.
    And your comment about shen and how trundle clears quick doesn't really mean anything. That's like saying "hey, I'm not the FATTEST kid at fat camp. But Shen makes up for it by having ranged moves that work for his teammates, and amazing global ulti, and a taunt that can taunt an entire team.

    AoE is very important in clearling camps early on because its much faster, especially for counter jungling to dominate enemy camps quickly. Late game as minion waves pile up AoE is very important as well because it allows you to catch up on CS since now your entire team is roaming and no one is really holding down a lane then the CS is yours, but it takes a really long time when you have to club each and every minion to death.

    Hope this helps.

  • #86 Annomania

    nvm

    Last edited by Annomania: 2/11/2013 9:33:02 PM
  • #84 Nekrocow

    Hi there :D

    1) What does the "Ganking x/x" means? Without/with red buff?

    2) Why do you put Shyvana on Tier 4? Is it because she relies on red to be able to ensure a good gank?

  • #88 Horuntar

    Probably because she has no gap closer, no cc AT ALL. Shes a farmer, thats about it. She like udyr just sucks in S3, shes even worse than udyr really cause atleast he has a stun.

  • #89 Yaamahri

    Actually she's there to aggressively counterjungle and countergank. The reason she is in tier 4 is the new jungle slaps her around and makes the aforementioned jobs harder for her. 

  • #94 Horuntar

    What the hell is the point of that. Shyvanna is good in one instance, when she has her ult. Other than that its basically, oh theres shyvanna, oh she popped her W, guess ill keep my distance till it runs out, okay now shes useless. Time to ignore her again.

  • #97 Yaamahri

    Her entire thing is she clears faster than other people, is a pain to 1v1, and she brings a lot of damage to her ganks. Take away her jungling safety(the fact that the new mobs craterface her) and she becomes unviable, or rather, a much more niche pick.

  • #98 OuterRaven

    She's not unviable, just outdone by Mundo at everything she does. There's literally no reason to pick Shyvana when you can pick Mundo.

     

  • #107 Horuntar

    Quote from Yaamahri »

    Her entire thing is she clears faster than other people, is a pain to 1v1, and she brings a lot of damage to her ganks. Take away her jungling safety(the fact that the new mobs craterface her) and she becomes unviable, or rather, a much more niche pick.

    Her damage is good, if she can ever catch someone, which is unlikely without her ultimate. No one would waste there time 1v1ing her when you can simple just go the other way. She literally has no means of slowing anyone down without red or FM, OR is right Mundo is a superior pick, and comes with a ranged perma slow and an overall superior kit to boot.

  • #115 Weirdone13

    1) What does the "Ganking x/x" means? Without/with red buff?

    It represents their ganking strength once they have their ultimate.

  • #132 Nekrocow

    Quote from Weirdone13 »

    1) What does the "Ganking x/x" means? Without/with red buff?

    It represents their ganking strength once they have their ultimate.

    Thank you :D, didn't think of that!

    About Shyvana: I haven't jungled her on 5v5 in years. But her W + Red buff wasn't that bad, as I recall. Her only close gap is her ult though, which is even slower than Leblanc's jump LOL.

  • #77 thre3aces

    I personally think that Lee Sin should not be as high as he is rated right now. He has been my go to jungler for the whole of s2 but since s3 and the slight nerfs I just don't think he is that useful anymore purely because his early game influence has been hit hard and he cant recover from early cock ups anywhere near as good as he could. 

    I also think that Jarvan should definitely be higher up purely because he is so well rounded and can do pretty much everything 

  • #78 Nash19

    Lee has always been very overrated but I agree that he lost a lot a power since the last nerfs.

    Lee Sin was about abusing that chaos you can easily find in solo queue to wreck early game and snowball off of that, but they just nerfed his early severely. I just played against a Lee Sin taht snowballed every lane, yet he still lost, because he's really weak late.

  • #95 Horuntar

    lol, be prepared for the rage because you disagreed with his precious tier list. He's stuck in season 2.

  • #102 jacktheplum

    Stuck in season 2? Then why did champions like Shyvana go down in tier?

  • #108 Horuntar

    Because even in S2, shyvanna was good, but not the best really. Yeah, we all know, she can clear fast, woopty shit. Thats all useless if she can't even think about a gank without having a slow or her ulti.

  • #74 EYEtriforc3

    About Elise, what masteries and runes do you reccomend ? cant find any decent Elise jungle guide anywhere

  • #109 Horuntar

    MPen reds, Armor Yellows, MRxLevel blues and health quints. I'd pick masteries for her similar to an AP carry as she gets enough initial tankiness out of runes.

  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes