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  • posted a message on Where Have All The Tanks Gone?

    Part of the problem is the way stats are grouped. As has been noted, CDR is hard to get on pure tank items, but it goes beyond that.

    Armor was worse than health in previous seasons, but it was grouped such that getting high armor was good. FH would be a solid high tier item at 10% CDR, 75 armor and 300 mana as long as it keeps that passive and is costed so the stats aren't too inefficient  (especially back when it had old range of something like 1000). Randuin's with the AS slow active was similarly great, and I think we all remember S2 GA as arguably the single best item in the game. The hit to those passives (the three highest armor items not named thornmail) was a 3rd hit to armor itemization. Health, on the other hand, was easy to pick up in small amounts. AP carries could get it on Rylai's and ROA (and now Liandry's). ADC's built one defensive item, and honestly it was GA. It could have been BV or QSS but really now. Tanks/bruisers could pick it up incidentally. Philo into Shurelia's? There's a free 300 health to go along with that active. Need an AS slow? Grab Warden's Mail and then pick up some health with the upgrade. You could even grab BV if you wanted (just kidding, you're getting FoN or Abyssal Scepter (or Wit's End if you were a bruiser when that was a thing)). If you needed a big chunk your options were Warmog's or play a bruiser and get FroMal. Look at the chart some lovely folks here at RoG have made about when you want more health or more armor and compare it to popular builds (both solo queue and competitive) and I bet you find that resistances were overbought. This is because unless you stacked Warmog's (or played Cho) health was just too hard to come by on tank items without getting tons of incidental resistances. On the other hand, pure resistances were easy to get. The weird grouping of stats and abilities led to an overvalue on resistances (okay, yeah, armor). This is, I think, largely separate from the fact that early resistances were too good (btw, Xyph could easily fix early armor being too good by nerfing only the early items, chain vest, cloth, null magic mantle, and negatron cloak, and leaving the higher items more or less alone. you get some weird scaling and gold chunk issues, but that can be handled). Yes, FH made early chain vest a better buy, but it didn't make early chain vest shut down hard AD champs; chain vest just kinda did that on its own.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Where Have All The Tanks Gone?

    I wouldn't go that far. He rants a lot, frequently uses rhetoric over analysis, and is rather prone to hyperbole. He doesn't attempt to justify all of his opinions on what is healthy (vs what is fun for hashinshin) and so I can see why people dismiss him. I used to dismiss him and I still dismiss paragraphs and sometimes entire articles of his. However, when he turns his hand to analysis it is quite good.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Where Have All The Tanks Gone?

    hashinshin can be abrasive and unfocused, but when he bothers to do proper analysis it tends to be very good.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Where Have All The Tanks Gone?

    I think you're confusing something. Bruisers are picked 75% of the time that a bruiser or tank is picked, or 3 times as much as tanks. This does not control out the scenario where multiple bruisers are picked or where a tank and a bruiser are both picked. Your projected stats appear to be based on number of games in which teams have that role, which is not something we can divine from GGustaf's data.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Where Have All The Tanks Gone?

    I think the point is that the role only gets picked 25% of the time. The champions who do get picked for that role are viable, but so few are that you can't really say the role is in a good place.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Where have all the top laners gone?

    The large difference in top lane frequently made the game, and some teams ran strategies based around top lane. As you said, a fed top lane could exhibit as much presence as a carry (more sometimes, but that depends on who the particular champion was. Nasus obviously had more lategame, dual mage carries were as influential as an AP carry because ... well, they were AP carries just being played top, and for a while you had bruisers like Jax who could get fed enough fast enough to got big before ADCs caught up)

    Both junglers usually spent a lot of time top, so it wasn't as if it was one guy getting 2v1'd the way it is now (or 3v1'd, really), and frequently what made the game at high level was who could turn the gank around. Sure there was jungle influence, but there was jungle influence everywhere. A good jungler could make or break any lane (and in fairness more often than not that lane was top, but why top if it was the least influential? the good tops weren't that much easier to gank), but a lategame Jax was still a lategame Jax and Shushei still carried hard.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Where have all the top laners gone?

    So re-balance. Riot has nerfed and buffed strategies before and then when that imbalances champions changed those champions. It is an added cost, but not one that is impossible to pay, nor one that Riot has ever been shy about paying before.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Where have all the top laners gone?

    What?

    Top laners frequently dominated games. End of S1 early S2 who were the big names that carried hard? It was a lot of Shushei and Voyboy and HSGG with an occasional Skyart. Yeah, there were some dominant carries and mids, but top had a heyday and during that heyday it was pretty dominant.Yeah, there were a lot of ADCs carrying, but top frequently made the difference.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Where have all the top laners gone?

    So, 2v1 started to be a thing in S2 but only really caught on as a huge thing in S3. I can think of a couple reasons why this might be the case

    1) Way back in the dawn of time (early S2 I think?) Riot nerfed towers to increase early aggression. Since then they have on occasion thrown out other changes with that goal. Players being players have of course taken that and run with it to create the 2v1 lanes that we see today. Early aggression being good makes rushing towers a good thing. I use the tower nerfs as my starting point because 1) it sticks out in my mind and 2) encouraging tower dives means that 3v1 under tower with coordinated teams should result in a win for the 3 unless the skill difference is so great that it trumps design. Back then things were very stagnant and early aggression was limited, but RIOT may have gone too far on this one and may need to role things back.

    Champion Balance:

    I wanted to say this was a factor, but I don't actually think so. For all that I want to think that flattening our champion power and limiting abuse cases should result in a lack of champions who can 2v1, it also has really hurt supports and has taken away some abuse cases for ADCs (release Vayne, Ezreal). Maybe there were more abusive top lanes and a lot of support power was mid-late game or less relevant in 2v1s (Taric aura, Janna ult), but I'm not sure if it is to blame or really it just is better knowledge of the game coming through.

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
  • posted a message on Myths About Resistances and Health

    shouldn't that be "there are ways to itemize against vayne"? There are few ways to itemize against Silver Bolts (AS slows), but Silver Bolts are not all of her damage

    Posted in: Gentleman Gustaf
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