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  • posted a message on SteppenKat's SoloQ Support Tier List (4.20)
    Quote from Rydrine »
    Quote from guidooo4 »

    Vel´koz is overrated as support. 

    Wowowowow.  You very obviously don't play him, and have not played vs anyone good at him.  I'm not "good", but I am confident I could hold my own with him through Plat. 

     

    Winrate 4: http://www.lolking.net/items/3092#topchampions 49% with fcq.Each other champ in the top 10 has 52-60%winrate. And that is in the games he can finish it. (tier 2 zyra got 59%,tier 4 brand 56)

    Vel is an immobile combo mage with four skillshots and a channeled ult.  That's about as hard to pick up and play as any mage, and winrates will obviously reflect that as new people who try him will likely have a steep learning curve.  I have a 62% win rate with him in S4, and am 8-2 in my last 10 with him.

    Roles 2. Pseudocarry is 1 role. He doesn't buff, he doesn't initiate, his peel unreliable, delayed, weak and most effective/reliable when he is the target.

    He sure as hell can initiate/pick throughout the entire match.  Catch an enemy with a Q in moderate range and you have a free E > W combo for your team to follow up on.  In lane, once you hit 6 you can add R to the end of that and nearly guarantee a kill if they don't flash away and you hit even 3/4 of your ult procs.  I've closed out plenty of games and secured objectives with a Q > E or E > Q pick when both teams are dancing around waiting for someone to make a move.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Resilence 2.(same as zyra) Zyra got a 2s aoe snare (way easyer to hit then velkoz his ), +30%slow on plants+1s aoe knockup+10%free cdr. Velkoz  Her base damages are slightly lower, if you forget that her plants can hit multiple times, got lower cd's, and are easyer to hit. On top of that her passive is the ultimate form of resilence.  Velkoz got a hard to hit "multitarget" slow (that is also his poke) and a ,75s suspension. basedamages are average outside of ult. His ult is unreliable at short range and requires him to stand still for 2,5s, making him an easy target (his ult is way more effective when enemies disengage). If zyra is a 2 then vel is a 1.Velkoz support need to snowball to have teamfight presence, but has little tools to do so. 

    You are right on what Zyra has, but are way undervaluing Vel'koz's kit.  Comparing his Q slow to Zyra's E snare, his Q is on a much shorter CD so can be used both to poke, and also be back up to peel in 4-5 seconds.  And while Zyra can only use her's in a straight line, he can extend the distance of his and split it to prevent people from sidestepping.  At max level it is a 2 second slow starting at 70% movespeed... unless they have a gapcloser, that is plenty to stop a pursuit.  And if not, he has a second non-ult skill in E to vacuum them away from you.  And if that fails you just throw another Q as it will be back up.  Zyra has only her ult to fall back on if the snare is sidestepped and she didn't have a seed available when she cast it.  I play both Zyra and Vel a lot, and I honestly peel much better with him since I can land his Q and E consistently.

     

    As for teamfight presence... he needs to snowball and has no tools??  All four skills are AoE/multitarget.  He has maybe the best teamfighting damage utl int he game.  It has insanely high base values and procs TRUE DAMAGE multiple times on multiple targets.  He has a long range skillshot that can hit 3 targets on a low CD, a double casting double hitting AoE line, and an AoE vacuum/suspension for utility.  Even if he's behind, when he gets a core of FQC/Sorc/Morellos, he has all the AP and CD he needs to make a big difference in teamfights until he catches up.

     

     

    Counterplay: 3 All his damage is dodgeable. His ult is interuptable. It is almost impossible to poke without taking cs/pushing lane, making him easy to gank(this is less of a problem mid, because of lane lenght). 

     

    His ability to set-up ganks is bottom tier, his poke is nothing exeptional, nor does he snowball when ahead like annie. He needs more money then most supports but the only thing he has to win lane is his high damage high cd ult. 

    Velkoz isn't a tier 2 support, even tier 3 would be flattering. Play him mid.

     

    All his damage is dodgeable, but in the right hands it is incredibly strong.  It is almost impossible to take CS/push lane with his poke if you have half a brain.  You don't poke with W or E, you poke with Q and that is very easy to angle around minion waves and sweep an entire bush at once.  He needs only the middle FQC and sorc boots to dominate lane, and he bullies hard with poke even before his ult is up.  He has a long range 70% slow and a suspension/vacuum that sets up ganks just fine.

     

    Again, you clearly do not support nor have seen a good Vel play support.

    I never said that vel´koz can´t support. A skilled vel´koz can be a geat lane bully, and become a carry in teamfights. I just think the ratings steppenkat gave him are a bit to high because provides very little when behind. He needs levels (for damage/lower cd's) and gold (for CDR). His utiity is strong because it is spamable (and does little vs assasins). Unlike zyra/sona/nami/janna/annie/morgana he doesn't got an ult that can win teamfights even tough he is 3 levels behind and he doesn't got long duration instant hard CC like fiddles or lulu. He doesn't buff/debuff.

     

    "Even if he's behind, when he gets a core of FQC/Sorc/Morellos, he has all the AP and CD he needs to make a big difference in teamfights until he catches up."

    Uhhh? How is a support getting 6k gold when behind? (and that is without wards)

     

    Don't get me wrong, you can carry with vel'koz duo bot if you know what your doing. But he isn't the supportgod some people think he is.

    Posted in: Written Work
  • posted a message on Warwick at 59% win rate now...

    Challenging smite isn't the problem, the other smite upgrades have comparable winrate on ww. on-hit magic damage seems to be hard to balance. As soon as it works it is op. Without nashors lulu and kayle wouldn't be nerfed.

    Posted in: General Discussions
  • posted a message on SteppenKat's SoloQ Support Tier List (4.20)

    Vel´koz is overrated as support. 

    Winrate 4: http://www.lolking.net/items/3092#topchampions 49% with fcq.Each other champ in the top 10 has 52-60%winrate. And that is in the games he can finish it. (tier 2 zyra got 59%,tier 4 brand 56)

    Roles 2. Pseudocarry is 1 role. He doesn't buff, he doesn't initiate, his peel unreliable, delayed, weak and most effective/reliable when he is the target.

    Resilence 2.(same as zyra) Zyra got a 2s aoe snare (way easyer to hit then velkoz his ), +30%slow on plants+1s aoe knockup+10%free cdr. Velkoz  Her base damages are slightly lower, if you forget that her plants can hit multiple times, got lower cd's, and are easyer to hit. On top of that her passive is the ultimate form of resilence.  Velkoz got a hard to hit "multitarget" slow (that is also his poke) and a ,75s suspension. basedamages are average outside of ult. His ult is unreliable at short range and requires him to stand still for 2,5s, making him an easy target (his ult is way more effective when enemies disengage). If zyra is a 2 then vel is a 1.Velkoz support need to snowball to have teamfight presence, but has little tools to do so. 

    Counterplay: 3 All his damage is dodgeable. His ult is interuptable. It is almost impossible to poke without taking cs/pushing lane, making him easy to gank(this is less of a problem mid, because of lane lenght). 

     

    His ability to set-up ganks is bottom tier, his poke is nothing exeptional, nor does he snowball when ahead like annie. He needs more money then most supports but the only thing he has to win lane is his high damage high cd ult. 

    Velkoz isn't a tier 2 support, even tier 3 would be flattering. Play him mid.

     

    Posted in: Written Work
  • posted a message on SteppenKat's SoloQ Support Tier List (4.20)

    You greatly overrate tresh as soloQ champ. His winrate is around 47% (all elo's). (+/- 50% in 5v5) You need team coördination to use his lantern and to follow up his hooks. 

    5 for counterplay? Dodging his hook (way easier then blitz) is counterplay. His hook+flay+ult (150scd) can be countered by attacking back. The damage of the combo is rather low (and costs a lot of mana), and moves tresh out of position. Tresh has low sustained damage (high cd's, low ad/as) and low durability. Preventing tresh collecting his souls is also counterplay. 

    With high CD's, no buffs/debuffs, and only singletarget hard cc (flay is soft CC in my opinion) and little disengage his lategame isn't special.

    His skills are very noticable and he is strong in comp play, but he isn't a soloQ god. 

     

    Taric is a bit underrated. His 53-55% winrate suggest otherwise (also in high elo) Tier 3 buffer? (morgana with only a shield is tier 1..) He gives his whole team 35 AD and AP (wich synergyzes with new dragon) for 10!s and 10-30 armor. (and 4.increased phys damage) on top of that he got a heal and armor reduction. With good use of his passive he can use his skills multiple times per fight.

    Brand with a hard to hit stun is a tier 3 peeler, taric not? 
    His stun is very good at catching people overextending or walking alone. 

     

    I also disagree with your statement that zyra is snowball reliant/weak vs sustain. She is good at turtleling/punishing turret dives. And she can deal with sustain without mana problems if she uses plants well.

     

    Sona is harder to use then leona in my opinion. Yes, Leona got a skillshot, but needs no mechanical skill or decision making. Leona all-in's, and uses all her skills to do so. Making use of sona's skills looks easy (but even then needs to know exactly at wich range Q prioritizes champs) but using the aoe requires timing and positioning. When getting all-ined she got no way out. Mindlessly spaming her skills makes her run out of mana. Using the right powerchord for a situation also requires planning ahead and decision making. She isn't tresh level dificult but harder then leona.

     

     

     

    Posted in: Written Work
  • posted a message on what is the worst cc you can have?

     worst CC:

    pull towards you on a ADC.

     

    Least outplay:

     

    Udyr. Unless running faster is considered outplaying.

    Posted in: General Discussions
  • posted a message on True Damage - UP or OP?
    Quote from n4zArh »
    Quote from acheron16 »
    Quote from KesslerCOIL »

    Vaynes true damage is the only kind i hate. 
    I'm fine with true damage, it counters resistances, but % HP True damage counters stacking ANY defences, leaving the only option to be to kill her before she can kill you

    That's why at release she was blatantly OP: had decent stats, normal range for an ADC (550 I think), her passive was much stronger and her ult hadn't yet been nerfed.

     

    It is also why Vayne is balanced right now: has shorter range, has AWFUL base stats, her ultimate was nerfed in both CD and bonus AD and her passive was halved.

    Vayne range is still 550. Hell, I'd like her to be 500 - that would be nice providing her dueling and tank shredding ability.

     

    And about bad stats... I checked 4 ADCs - Vayne, MF, Trist and Kog. Vayne is behind when it comes down to base HP (about 50 less, 75 in MF case), HP5, MP, MP5, armor (about 3-4 less than most, excluding Kog). Actually - not counting skills - Kog is LOWEST range with 500 base, rest is 550. Then, Vayne has biggest base AD and AD growth stat (53 base compared to 49), second best AS (behind Kog) and whooping 4% AS growth (compared to 3% or even 2.5%) and biggest speed (330 vs 325).

     

    And as for weak early game... she has tumble to run away from any other poke than click'n'hit stuff (and to give some burst to enemies). She has silver bolts, which even in early game can deal nice damage (and it's not a problem to proc it - you want to attack one enemy at the time most of the times). She has condemn, which is goddamn good at driving one of the enemies away (and which can stun enemy). Her passive let's her chase you down if she is winning trade for some weird reason. Finally, if she gets to the 6, she get's superior dueling ultimate (+30AD? x3 passive? 8 sec duration with 100 cd? Invisibility on most spammable skill?). Since 6 on, if she wasn't terribly behind, she will start to roll over enemy team. Add %HP true damage to that, as if she hadn't have enough as she is ADC, who are (all of them) scaling into late like true beasts.

     

     

     

    And back to the topic: Vayne is only champ I hate true damage on. It just gives you no counterplay to her late, except for "well I hope you brought assassin with you". Stacking HP gives you nothing thanks to the %dmg. Stacking armor gives you nothing thanks to the true dmg. Getting Randuin/FH gives you nothing thanks to her being a Vayne, who doesn't have to try to get terrific AS. Rest of true dmg is okay (maybe a bit annoying on Darius, but even he has it only as ultimate), especially since it's not that big values.

     You overrate the value off aa's at lvl 6. You need AS in order to benefit off that AD, with only ,7 attacks per second you can get 5 attacks off in 8s, 7 if you max q first, 200 dmg and lane trades seldom last 8s. (cait ult is 350 damage). And with no waveclear she will eat a lot of minion damage during tht 8s. Yes, she can poke with her Q, other ADC's can poke with a spell(with basedamage) plus a auto. 30 bonus damage after 3 attacks is nothing compared to a 100+1,3AD damage caitlyn Q

    All champs you mention have AS steroids (like most ADC's), and outside of trist (who also got 4% a month ago) a damage steroid.  ADC's with no as steroid got vaynelike AS. 
    Vayne is very AA dependent, so AS reduction counters her more then any ADC . Armor does more against vayne then against a kog maw or corki. At least 80% of her damage is phys.

     

     

    Quote from HPBEggo »

    True damage really exists for a few reasons, and all of them are pretty solid...

    1) The damage is so low that it simply wouldn't be doing anything if it wasn't true damage, a la Twitch Poison.

    2) You want to reduce the number of stats that a champion needs to build to be effective dealing damage. Olaf is a great example of this, as he doesn't need to build penetration and can still do damage, as is Irelia.

    3) You absolutely need to kill the target to get a major benefit from it. Cho'gath's Feast is probably the best example. Smite and Nunu Consume also fall here, as you want to use them to kill the target and the type of damage they do doesn't really matter, as they can't be used against Champions (Chilling Smite and Challenging Smite excepted).

    4) You want the champion to be able to deal damage to tanks. Vayne is the quintessential example of this, as you can't build much of anything defensively against Silver Bolts.

    Really it's more of a design choice than a balance one, and the skills end up balanced around the power they bring while allowing more interesting design. I'm not seeing any issues with its existence, even if it IS hard to balance.

    1) riot first picks the type of damage, then the numbers, not the other way around. You also underrate Twitch his passive, it deals more then half the damage of vaynes W, and affects multiple targets with his ult. DoT's are just harder to appreciate. 

     2) true

    3) On cho/darius it isalso about making their ult relevant on all enemies trough the game even when builded tanky. 

    4) Vaynes w is what gives her a niche, being a godlike duelist. The true damage is to make her able to duel tanks without becoming to strong vs squizy's, and without making her a hypercarry like twitch.

     

    Posted in: General Discussions
  • posted a message on Is Riven broken in herself?

    In my opinion Riven isn't OP, but too snowbally. If she gets ahead she is so hard to stop. She can get 40% shield uptime She got no manacosts, and low CDs so she can use her skills to push the wave top, again to move to mid faster, again to gapclose. with 40%CDR yQ got 7,8s cd.  (4 times per minion wave) 
    Unlike most skills with multiple casts, riven her Q goes on CD immediately after the first cast, same as her shield and her ult (15s duration, 30s CD with cdr). This results in very low opportunity costs on her skills. There is almost no moment you can trade with her when she has no shield, casting a channeled spell without interupt, cast a skillshot without dash, gank her with no escape, or  duel her without her ult. Riven isn't op, and not easy to play mechanically, but I think her skills should have some sort of downtime. (eg. Give her skills longer CD when used with a fully stacked passive)

    Posted in: General Discussions
  • posted a message on Is Riven broken in herself?
    Quote from Noxana »
    Quote from Margrabia »
    Quote from Noxana »
    Quote from Margrabia »
    Quote from Yazla »

    She most probably needs some kind of resource system that limits the spam. Come late game, skills have pretty much a non existant CD.

    You mean brut and cdr boots are lategame?

    Oh come on, 25% CDR sure is a lot but still not limitless.

     

     

    Add the 10% from CDR runes (or 7,5% from flats) and you are ready to go with at least 32,5% :3 after 2337g that also gives her nice chunk of AD and ARP.

    I realize that but exchanging AD or MR for CDR is at some point of the game a risky move. Never tried that out myself, still I'm not sure if Riven with a runepage dedicated to MR and CDR rather than MR and AD would be as effective as ever. I guess I'll need to save some IP for tons of CDR runes.

     Most pro´s use CDR blues, both flat and scaling, and sometimes one CDR quint to get a round number (eg 9 flat blue 1 flat quint 10%, 9 scaling blue 15%, 6 flat blue, 3 scaling blue, 10%, 6 scaling 10%) combined with 5% from masteries. (total 15% if they take lucidity boots, 10/20% if not) and build a combination of BC, Youmous and SV to get to 40%.

    Quote from SteppenKat »

    Imo Riven 's issue is that she is what you would call a SAD (single atribute dependant) character, while most are MAD (multiple atribute dependant).

     

    You just pump a shit-ton of AD in her and she suddenly is sturdy, can push fast, deals a lot of damage, can burst, can DPS. She is ridiculously efficient. Other champions need several stats and getting one or another entails an opportunity cost. For Riven is just "lol more AD, imma bruiser".

     

    SAD characters are always hard to balance, especially when AD is such a useful stat.

    SAD are easier to balance, because their scaling is linear (eg1 point of atribute increase dps by 1) and building isn't matchup dependent (so if his attribute is getting 10% more expensive he will scale 10% less with money whilst other champs might change their build) .To strong early->lower base attribute, to strong scaling with levels->lower per level gains, to much scaling with money -> increase price/lower scaling, to strong when full build->limit amount of attribute. No champ in lol has such a single stat that is the only tool to balance.

     

    A mad is more complex to balance since attribute 1 affects the effectiveness of attribute 2, and the optimal ratio between attribute 1 and attribute 2 is situational. 

    -hyperscaling; buying attribute 1 makes attribute 2 more effective (ad+AS+crit scale with each other) 

    -feast/famine; Swain needs mana, AP, Mpen, armor and MR, to be effective, but when ahead base defense can be enough, and spend all his money on damage (he will even need less mana). But when behind he either lacks resistances to survive, or deals no damage.

     

    Riven besides AD riven also needs to cap CDR (mobility ánd DPS), armor pen (LW, at least 1 brut upgrade and reds), rav hydra (waveclear, sustain and burst)  and unless she is snowballing also needs defense. ADC's build more AD.Her shield is strong because it so spamable, and very strong in small skirmishes.(combined with her mobility to roam) because she can survive long enough to use her shield more often. But lategame she is quite weak. She is to slow (mobility and burst) to assinate and to squizy to tank.

    Posted in: General Discussions
  • posted a message on Zac-Do you remeber this guy RIOT ?

    He is one of the best initiators ingame but, unlike other tanks he doesn't got a lot of cc outside of ult (small slow), no free tank stats or other utility (eg armor reduction). Initiation is useless if you can't win the battle. A malphite for example not only got initiation+knockup, but also a shield, a slow, attackspeed reduction and 40% increased armor. 

    The problem of zac is that as soon as he got the damage to clear the jungle/trade in lane in proscene his roaming pressure is way to strong. 1550 range jump+1000 range ult+550 range slow. And if he gets going there is no stopping him with sustain, no mana costs and on top of that his passive. He isn't easy to balance, he can pick his fights so well that he must lose them all to be balanced. 

     

    That is proscene tough, in soloQ he is fine. He isn't played that often, so people don't know how to counter you, and if you play him well and get your team going, you can force 5v5's and win.

     

    Posted in: General Discussions
  • posted a message on karma
    Quote from Stammer6 »
    Quote from atemporalCorpse »

    Wow, you can't be serious. You must have a problem against Karma or something. She DOES have insane push, insane damage, she does everything people say she does. I've seen comments like yours before, and it's usually people who were recently unsuccessful with a certain champion that end up spewing misinformation.

    More from successfully playing against her rather than unsuccessfully playing as her. I found the match-up reminiscent of playing against Sona in a 1v1 lane: massive Lv.1 damage, but then squishy and easy to kill a half-dozen times before the end of laning phase. Especially once Lv.6 is reached, her opponent gains a significantly larger power spike than she does. So even if you're worried about fighting her before then, most mid-laners (and top-laners and bot-laners) can usually go for easy kills after.

    A lot of champions with heavy poke like Karma also have something else to back it up. Ziggs is going to be an asshole all day, but if you try to go in on him, he can W to stun you, E to keep you still, and spam passive-enhanced autoattacks and Q's at you before dropping a Mega-Inferno Bomb on your head. Lux will poke you with E, and if you try to go in on her, she can very easily throw a Q+R+AA and often kill you.

    But what does Karma do? Even if I'm playing an immobile champion and eat a Mantra-enhanced Q to the face, I know I can keep walking forward and beat her into dust. I'm trying really hard to think of one champion who doesn't beat her in a 1v1 lane. The only ones I can think of are the melee assassins like Akali, Talon, and Diana. And even then, once they do hit 6, Karma's toast.

     

    Quote from Stammer6 »

    She doesn't work well as a mid. She just doesn't offer anything that a mid-laner should have: Her wave-clear is limited, she has no real burst or crowd-control, and no mobility. All she really has is an OP poke. You can't gank for her, you can't roam as her, you can't take towers very well, your duelling assumes that your opponent isn't a bursty champ (and most mid-laners have some decent ways to kill you).

    She works as a support because most people massively overestimate her damage and trading ability. "Oh no, I got hit for half my health by her Q. I'd better run away!" And she works as a top-laner because she can kite and poke like the best of them. Just keep in mind that your low duelling ability, inability to shred towers, and mediocre-at-best late-game means that the island of top-lane needs to be won pretty furiously by someone like Karma.

    Seems like the karma´s you faced forgot to level w and e.

    Her poke is nothing compared to velkoz/lux/xerath/ziggs. She has only Q to poke with, and Q doesn't have that much range, and a small hitbox. During laning it is a decently strong poke, lategame it is impossible to poke(!) anyone but the tank, she does well as support in poke teams/meta's because of her spamable (dis)engage and kiting. Her teamfighting is decent, but nothing special. Decent AOE damage, decent sustained damage, decent burst damage, decent utility, no way to kill their ADC (if positioned well) and no hard CC. She doesn't win you teamfights, but if your team can win teamfights, she can make them happen, and make sure no one escapes. So yes, she can fall off lategame, but if the other members of your team scale very well she can help them get there.

     

    Now, I don't understand how you can say she has no roaming, nor asssist ganks, her kit excels in both. She has slow/snare (very strong cc for ganks and roaming) can give a melee jungler the speed to close a gap. 

    "A lot of champions with heavy poke like Karma also have something else to back it up."

    "Lux will poke you with E, and if you try to go in on her, she can very easily throw a Q+R+AA and often kill you"

    Karma will poke you with Q (lower manacost(karma50-70 lux 70-130) and half the CD, same damage, and if you try to go in on her she can very easily throw a mantra W +another Q (Q will be off-cd by that time) for the same damage and get a heal on top of that (without using a 80s ult CD) and if the target survives Karma got more then enough tools to chase and finish.

    Karma excels in punishing bad engages.

     

    "Even if I'm playing an immobile champion and eat a Mantra-enhanced Q to the face, I know I can keep walking forward and beat her into dust.  I'm trying really hard to think of one champion who doesn't beat her in a 1v1 lane. "

    If you consider Kassadin immobile you are right. Yes  offcourse champs beat her face 2 face. But karma got so much to keep distance. If you got that mantra Q in your face, your going to be slowed for 1,5s, then she uses her W,+auto's (kiting away from you) and if you keep chasing her she will snare you for 2s, during which she can land another 2 auto's and walk to max auto range and throws another Q(3scd) to your face to slow you more. If that isn't enough to keep the distance she still has E. 

     

    "your duelling assumes that your opponent isn't a bursty champ"

    Instant shield+instant 20% missing health.During laning that is more then enough.

    Posted in: Champions and Gameplay
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