What happened to Lee Sin?

#1 4/15/2015 10:20:13 AM
Arcyvilk
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So, let our foothold be the quote from my latest ranked game lobby.

Amumu: no yorrick pls
Amumu: no lee
Amumu: christ
Lee Sin: jesus let me play my own game
Vayne: ppl want to win at ranked..
Amumu: go play normals then
Arcyvilk: Let him pick what he is comfortable with
Vayne: you r not helping by picking up some of the weakest champ..

During the match they proceed to blame his pick for every single failure. And it's not the first, nor second - uh, nor even third - time when someone in my game goes crazy over Lee Sin pick. Even if he was doing good, he was flamed regardless because "Lee is shit now"

I don't like Lee. I don't play him. I'm not a jungler nor a toplaner so I have no idea. But I find it fascinating, how the champion being absolute top tier for such long time became the troll pick in so many players' eyes.

Were it the nerfs? Mini-rework? Meta shift towards cinderhulk users? Pros stopped picking him so automatically "he is bad"? Or maybe he isn't that shitty and people are just overreacting?

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#2 4/15/2015 10:25:17 AM
Margrabia
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Quote from Arcyvilk jump
Pros stopped picking him so automatically "he is bad"? Or maybe he isn't that shitty and people are just overreacting?

^

Also Lee was busy kicking Rydels ass in our recent 1v1.

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#3 4/15/2015 10:28:05 AM
SpartanClaymore
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Lee is still the best early snowball jungler, or at least in that group. It's just the pressure is even higher to succeed on him now because of all the scaling tanks that are now the meta.

You can still destroy a game single-handedly as Lee.

But yes, because of pros it's usually Lee's fault if you lose the game now. Apparently it's a Sin to play anything the pros don't.

EDIT; LOL, A Vayne in solo queue really can't judge others.

Last edited by SpartanClaymore: 4/15/2015 10:29:23 AM

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#4 4/15/2015 10:29:28 AM
NovaPulse
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Their thinking is probably Lee doesn't build cinderhulk thus is bad. Nothing has really changed with Lee since he was being spammed except cinderhulk was added.

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#5 4/15/2015 10:32:02 AM
Teiji_x_Teiji
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Lee Sin, bad? Okay. Typical Amumu and Vayne players, almost saddening.

I hope you did everyone on the server a favour and reported them all for unskilled player so their MMR eventually lowers to where it belongs.

Lee Sin can't not be good. Like Thresh.

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Grated cheese enthusiast.
#6 4/15/2015 10:36:37 AM
kuroneko0
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Lee is not in the meta anymore. Tanks reign right now, snowballer like Lee sin/Shaco/Nidalee have to snowball a lot harder than before because they get outscaled. And noone wants to play a game where you lose after a while. They don't want to be relying on Lee being much better than everyone else, which he most likely isn't to win. They want to win the easiest way possible, and that is with a tank.

It's a risk many don't want to take.

They obviously were overreacting, but they are still right.

edit: people still believe that reports for unskilled player lowers MMR

Last edited by kuroneko0: 4/15/2015 10:41:17 AM

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Dominion and cats
#7 4/15/2015 10:37:13 AM
Ryzetafari
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He's sleeping while this meta lasts. LET HIM.

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Oak's words echoed... Keep it PG13!
#8 4/15/2015 10:51:31 AM
UNOvven
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The impossible happened. He isnt a top pick for the first time in, what, 4 years? Well, 3.5 actually, but you get the idea. Is he bad? Not by a long shot. He is still good. But he isnt crazy good anymore. Hell, he is outclassed by tanks in some ways. Im kind of happy about it, even if it is just a bandaid fix situation.

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#9 4/15/2015 11:14:56 AM
tjo2012
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Or heres a fun fact. Counterplay exists and hes not as much of a jack of all trades as people think and highly dependant on the support/mid hard engage and pick meta.

Ive been saying hes balanced since before the attack speed slow removal. People just get butthurt and buy into the bullshit mindset created by his champ spotlight and subsequent play

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#10 4/15/2015 11:20:25 AM
KulliKekkonen
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JUSTICE happened

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Connoisseur of shitchampions
#11 4/15/2015 11:26:52 AM
darksamus8
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He doesn't instawreck every other jungler now, and is therefore not as popular. He's still perfectly good, but only his actual fanbase will play him, rather than every scrub who can hit a single skillshot and get freelo for it.

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#12 4/15/2015 11:33:40 AM
TheDevicer
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This "absolute top tier" pick never exceeded 50% win rates. The fact is his power spikes and relative skill requirements kept him from being a noteworthy pick. I'm never scared of Lee picks. I get nervous when I see someone like Panth, Vi, etc. that have less chances of fucking up.

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#13 4/15/2015 11:37:30 AM
TAGDENIED
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Quote from kuroneko0 jump

Lee is not in the meta anymore. Tanks reign right now, snowballer like Lee sin/Shaco/Nidalee have to snowball a lot harder than before because they get outscaled. And noone wants to play a game where you lose after a while. They don't want to be relying on Lee being much better than everyone else, which he most likely isn't to win. They want to win the easiest way possible, and that is with a tank.

It's a risk many don't want to take.

They obviously were overreacting, but they are still right.

I agree with this, but I find it funny that when I started playing jungle (favouring tanks) ages ago, it was invading lee sin players that made my life absolute hell, it was considered a terrible move to pick a tank when lee was on the field, yet here tanks are back in force and some people think he is useless. Snowballing the game harder and faster is definitely an issue for snowballing champs, but surely of all the early game junglers, lee sin is the one to bring the pain to those who want a better late game (despite a slowing of pace/safer jungle ect ect).

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#14 4/15/2015 11:39:39 AM
SpaceManAlex
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Vayne: you r not helping by picking up some of the weakest champ...

xD said the vayne, one champion I've seen cost so many games over the past three years of playing. Also im glad if the sheep think Lee isnt viable any-more they only outplay themselves on him anyway all the way into diamond.

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#15 4/15/2015 11:40:10 AM
Rauvyl
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Anyone saying he's bad or a troll pick or anything like that should watch the SK vs UOL Semifinal series (Game 3 and 4 specifically, IIRC).

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#16 4/15/2015 11:54:55 AM
chaeor1
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a jungler who dominated season 2 to the point of pick or ban and was nerfed in season 2 and 3 still was one of the greatest junglers in 3 in 4 he started going off cause of how predictable he is if he Q know hes gonna insec someone (fuking duh) even pronze nows that the nerf on his E W and base stats made him powerful early but not to throw off the jungler minute 1 but his late game (heres the shit) is utter bullshit compared to almost all the fighters ... yes he has that dmg output buuuuuut not effective enough to worry of he is literally a walking kick in the current meta of season 5 , i think they will re buff leesin though but most probably going to be a minor buff keep in mind for 2 years he owned junglers backandforth now he is good but not the promising good

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#17 4/15/2015 11:56:31 AM
Crayonsnacha
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Yet your team had amumu and vayne. Two of the bottom-tier champions in their respective roles right now.

But to answer your question, people are finally realizing lee isn't as good as people make him out to be. He builds full AD to stay relevant lategame->he gets melted and cc'd. He builds tank for durability->kited+basically a feather. His early is all he has in a meta that's full of tanks that are getting beefier and beefier early.

In my personal opinion, Lee was gutted to never-play-again status for me when they removed AS debuff on cripple.

Last edited by Crayonsnacha: 4/15/2015 11:58:04 AM

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#18 4/15/2015 11:59:44 AM
UNOvven
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Win rates do still not work like that. They never have. They never will. He was always a noteworthy pick. I mean, bloody hell, he is probably the most picked champion in the time since his creation.

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#19 4/15/2015 12:22:48 PM
promezeus
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well I have nothing against lee jungle (still hate him)

but for god sake do I hope to never ever see a lee sin supp again.

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#20 4/15/2015 12:31:50 PM
Crayonsnacha
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Quote from UNOvven jump

Win rates do still not work like that. They never have. They never will. He was always a noteworthy pick. I mean, bloody hell, he is probably the most picked champion in the time since his creation.

I'd have to say Annie/Janna would have the highest pickrates since their creation. If kayle wasn't kind of dead right now, I'd say her too.

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