[4.8] Gameplay Patch Forecast, Lifetime RP Purchase Rewards To Be Revealed This Year, 4.8 Team Builder Bugs, Pixel Poro Minigame

Important: Unofficial PBE Patch Notes for 5/13/2014 - Twisted Treeline Jungle Monsters Changes, Udyr's E Now With a Stun Indicator

[4.8] Live Gameplay Patch Forecast

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

Hey guys, Jag here again for the 4.8 Patch Forecast. We're trying to rotate the Live Gameplay designers that deliver this each patch so you get to know more of the Balance team, but RiotChun was hard at work on some Kha'Zix changes (more details on that below), so hopefully you'll hear from him or SmashGizmo for 4.9.

As it stands, this may be a light patch because we're working on a few mid/long-term changes that you may not see until 4.9 or later, but we'll do our best to keep you on top of everything we have in flight. When we first started doing these forecasts (not too long ago), we thought we'd just talk about all the challenges we faced in the past and present, but didn't fully consider how long each would take in terms of getting 'right.' This might give a better idea of how we approach design and conception.

1) Because we saw how light 4.8 was in terms of our shorter-term projects, we also took some time to 'modernize' a few champions in the game. There are a lot of challenges to doing this constantly (we can talk about that later), but the ones here were selected for their low impact, high value for players without skewing or being 'halfway' fixes that don't address core issues.

The ones below we're in the process of concepting and ideation, and some are closer than others but they're all at least close enough to talk about:

2) Soraka

Solo lane Soraka is definitely a problem with her easy lane clear and almost infinite harass potential. As with Lulu, we have to ask the question of whether or not we think this is a character that has a play pattern that can provide healthy gameplay as both a support and a mid/top laner. We looked into solutions to just hit Soraka's wave clear, like reducing the Starcall damage done to minions, but overall it's hard to see her having such significant sustained damage through the base values of Starcall, even when she has tankier builds. To that end we may refocus some of the power value of Starcall into utility instead of damage.

3) Feral Flare

We've had a lot of pivots on this item in terms of its purpose and long-term direction. I think the live version more accurately reflects the concept we want it to facilitate - a mid/late game item that has strong scaling for carry/autoattacking champions. We still need to make sure that it fits in, in terms of jungler map interactivity, so we're looking to tweak the item's power level while refining the kill/assist mechanics to further incentivize Feral Flare junglers to at least occasionally leave their camps and pressure lanes.

4) Skarner

We're still working on some changes to help Skarner's stickiness and reduce the snowballiness of his current passive. He probably won't have changes for 4.8, but he's still a high priority we're actively working on. Promise!

5) Kha'zix

The team has been hard at work on finding ways to make Kha'zix's popular evolutions balanced. As a side goal we're trying to make all 4 feel like viable evolutions (at least situationally), but our greater concern is keeping him an interesting Assassin with options for counterplay without giving him too much Fighter-level utility (and the capability to brute force fights like Fighters while finishing the fight quickly like an Assassin). The damage reduction on his evolved Ultimate is one of the big culprits here, as there are no avenues of counterplay against him when he stealths (detect and kill him? run away? He has tools to avoid both!).

6) LeBlanc

Our team is continuing analysis on LeBlanc. Her problems remain the same: she's a high burst, high mobility assassin with low counterplay. However, we're reluctant to totally break down her high points without making sure has ways to meaningfully contribute to her team's success, whether that be through her Mage patterns (i.e. her CC) or her Assassin patterns. The problem right now is her 'core identity' is so tied in with her unbalanced play that extracting one from the other is a bigger challenge.

7) Nidalee

Nidalee has been problematic for some time now. We like seeing comps oriented around poking the enemy, but the onslaught of life-or-death projectiles that Nidalee can throw at enemy teams in the mid/late game, particularly when she's built some cooldown reduction, is not interesting gameplay. We have larger set of promising changes in progress for her that fixes her long range spear problems while trying to emphasize more of her "hunting" ideas (you'll hear about it when we get more confidence in the overall direction), but we may need to make a power adjustment on the interim if Nidalee remains so optimal for poke comps.

8) AD Carries

Twitch has made a big splash recently in the competitive scene. Some of our design team has wondered why it did not happen earlier, given his strong laning and fantastic end-game scaling. We're guessing his prettier (or uglier, depending on the thematic we're going for) model helps. We're not going to rush any changes on him yet since we'd like some time to see how a high pick rate on him will play out, but he's definitely on our radar. His end-game hypercarry role is something we like and are unlikely to remove from the game; if anything, his early Contaminate (formerly Expunge) damage may be a little too powerful.

Lucian has been a steady pick in competitive for some time now. His combination of very reliable and effective damage in lane (his Piercing Light ability has relatively low counterplay and Lightslinger is a strong scaling damage passive), as well as his very high levels of safety make him a carry with virtually no weaknesses. We are a little more confident that we're going to need to make adjustments to him soon to help give him more defined strengths and weaknesses instead of being such a generalist blind pick.

9) Jungle

We have been spending a lot of time examining what function the jungle plays in League of Legends and how to evaluate jungler interactions we like seeing in the game. We need more time to deliver a cohesive story here but I want to note that it is at the front and center of our team's focus right now.

10) Braum

Braum has just released and we are keeping a close eye on his power level!

Lifetime RP Purchase Rewards To Be Revealed This Year

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

What happened to the lifetime purchase RP rewards?

::wisps of air spiral out from Thresh’s lantern and an apparition appears resembling DontHassleDaHoff::

“You summoned me, your grace” – ‘daHoff says.

“Where are our Lifetime purchase RP rewards?” The Player asks.

::The apparition twists unto itself, contorts into Baron Nashor, then shifts into Draaaaaaven, then morphs into Braum. Unable to find a stable shape, the apparition, concedes to the form of ambiguity, taking the shape that The Player wants, before shifting to the next form.::

“The Player has spoken, it has many voices. We’ve asked many of you and the feelings around this program causes much contention. One issue that we’re concerned with is the treatment of players that spend money differently than those that don't. Another is that the rewards are achievable without spending too much money. Another is that the rewards are valuable enough to feel good to those that receive them, without feeling too bad to those that don't. Most of the ideas we've come up with solve one or more of these concerns but not the rest.

“I'm promised Hippalus that these problems will all be solved by the end of 2014 and the Player will be happy. We value all of our Players, and we’re keeping that in mind in our design of the program. Hopefully The Player likes it as well.”

::With his last words, DontHassleDaHoff, stares at the player with a look of hope, seeking approval, but expecting the worst.::

4.8 Team Builder Bugs and Feedback

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

Hey all you PBE Team Builders,

For 4.8 we have a couple of updates for Team Builder that need some PBE testing. Check these out and post a comment here if you spot any bugs. Be sure to post reproduction steps so we can check it out and narrow down the cause of any bugs.

  1. The unranked "Classic 5v5" Wins counter in your Summoner Profile should now include all the wins you've accrued using Team Builder.

  2. Captains can now grant invite privileges to buddies they invite to Team Builder (just like in normal pre-champ-select lobbies)

We have some more improvements we're working on for 4.8 and I'll update this thread when they are available for testing.



EDIT: Team Builder is available from 1-5pm PST on Monday/Wednesday and from 6am-10am PST on Tuesday/Thursday.

Pixel Poro Minigame - Featuring Braum - Out Today!

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Braum’s epic shield may look strong enough to stop an avalanche crashing down the side of one of Freljord’s peaks, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be used for a much more whimsical past-time.

Pixel Poro, a new browser minigame (compatible with IOS and Android browsers), finds the upcoming addition to the League of Legends champion roster battling Leona for support supremacy. Volley an adorable poro back and forth between snowy cliffs, trying to knock him past your opponent to score points. You can either play by yourself or locally with a friend. First champion to score 10 points wins the match - and the poro’s undying love.

We hope you enjoy Braum and Leona’s pixel makeovers. Keep that shield up!

Click here to play!



  • #112 LemurGuy

    Really I feel like a lot of the power from OP champs is the comp built around it. This problem stems from the lack of ability to effectively counter pick or ban out due to the much broader play style of solo lanes.

    The real solution to this is changing the pick / ban phase. something like a 3-1-1 ban structure does allow you to recognize the type of comp an enemy is building and use reactionary bans to force them in another direction where a champ becomes less optimal. 

  • #107 RGDarkeblue

    I feel like Nidalee get's too many unfair defensive options as a pure AP caster, maybe make one of her forms' abilities scale with AD, so she can't nuke people in both forms?

    I'd say make her cat form scale with AD, cause if she's gonna build AP for the glass cannon spears, she shouldn't be able to turn around and nuke someone in cat form, hourglass their counter attack and then nuke them again. Just a thought.

  • #109 Alpha_3216

    Her cat for Q (takedown) scales with AD. I believe the numbers at max rank are 100 + 1.0 AD to 300 + 3.0 AD based on the targets missing health. I think the problem isn't so much the scaling with AP/AD but more the fact that she can Javelin Toss once and then easily close the gap with a short cd gapcloser and an execute. Combined with the fact that her wave clear and roam is fantastic post 6, she has an insanely powerful heal, and long lasting traps that provide an often overlooked but extremely powerful debuff, and you end up with a long-range, nuker, mage, assassin, support, pushing catwomen.

    In summary, she has low risk high reward gameplay with a huge amount of utility on a very short CD, and her only counterplay is to never get hit.

  • #102 goonza29

    Still waiting the buffs we were promised to make top lane champions be on par with Renekton. He still wins no matter what, and even then he might just get ahead because a single little mistake.

  • #98 Jinzee

    Inb4 Riot trashes the jungle again. Seriously, the jungle is fine as it is. Its fun, because you can actually carry a game from there now. The only real issue is Spirit of the Elder Lizard being so much stronger than Ancient Golem. Just make some tweaks to make the item (thus, tanks) more attractive, but GOD PLEASE dont nerf the shit out of the exp/gold income.

  • #97 12ocky

    5) Nidalee: Spear build up damage reduced from 250 to 200% and more damage + ratio on W Cougar in return? Making her more of riskier champ to fully utilize.

    8) Are Lucian and Twitch OP, or is half of the ADC class just not good enough?

    9) Buff Spirit of Ancient Golem: so we can see the comeback off tank junglers. MOAR HEALTH (maybe even buff Spectral Wraith a bit aswell: make it stacks count from machete's hunter)

    11) Reworks for the likes of Poppy

    12) Mr/level on all melee champions

    13) Rune balancing, item balancing

  • #103 CosmicDarklord

    isnt the mr/level just like on like 2 melee champs without explanation.

    My favorite champ maokai and someone else

    Like yasuo and kassidin is fair game they are just broken champs who do not deserve mr

  • #108 12ocky

    Maokai, Singed, Shen, Galio, Poppy (Gragas used to before his remake, Kassadin yeah idd broken design, don't really care about Poppy either)

    I wish Yasuo (wind wall mainly) wasn't so broken.

  • #110 CosmicDarklord

    giving it to galio would be explained as to strong early game due to passive though. Shen used to be super strong without it but now he can barely keep up with everyone else.  Gragas was broken he won every match up. I only wish taht yasuo didnt have a double passive. The crit thing is enough the fact that any exchange is lost because even having more minons means nothing when he just regains a broken shield with no skill involved

  • #86 xThundax

    So when are those promised Lee changes finally coming.

  • #87 acheron16


    Since there are so many Lee Sin players, they managed to cry enough so that Riot stopped their changes indefinitely.

  • #90 TehUnacceptable
    Quote from acheron16 »


    Since there are so many Lee Sin players, they managed to cry enough so that Riot stopped their changes indefinitely.

    It's hard to believe that it's true. I've always wanted Lee changes, but they cry over it and now Lee still has a very high popularity and annoying to play against.

  • #95 12ocky

    Well they still have them in the back of their minds, but because of the massive crying + the low priority it has, they won't change him.

    I liked their final proposition (which didn't nerf his ratio's too hard, for the people who liked full AD Lee Sin.)
    In the end he wouldn't have been changed that much, except for more faster autoattacks in the lategame and not being able to rely on his magic damage e in the early game (as a laner).

    I wish they hadn't nerfed his W though ...

  • #104 Rahvin90210
    Quote from TehUnacceptable »
    Quote from acheron16 »


    Since there are so many Lee Sin players, they managed to cry enough so that Riot stopped their changes indefinitely.

    It's hard to believe that it's true. I've always wanted Lee changes, but they cry over it and now Lee still has a very high popularity and annoying to play against.

    He's also one of the reasons support/tank junglers are being kept down, so I reckon they are still looking at him.

  • #85 TehUnacceptable

    100 posts in 4 days woo hooo 

  • #77 TehUnacceptable

    Jax is not on list -_-

  • #96 SUlVlTHING

    rito's new baby

  • #70 SUlVlTHING

    Nerfs are not needed for most of these champions

    Kha'Zix: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/25iy4j/a_sad_void_monsterkhazix/

    LeBlanc: Although she has one of the strongest burst in-game, she can easily be shut down if enemy plays passively and junglers constantly gank her. Ganking would not be successful due to her high mobility, but during 10 second window where her w is on cooldown, your midlaner can try to make plays or even try to out farm her. LeBlanc can only do what she can do once she gets fed by kills. Also if you see end game stats, she probably deals the least damage. This is because she is doing what she is supposed to do. Single target burst. There is no problem if a champion does what they are supposed to do.

    Lucian: Although Lucian has a strong burst, he lacks what other ad carries can do. Taking towers. Lucian comes with a fairly low attack speed so amount of time he gets to clear tower is considerably longer then jinx, draven, caitlyn, and other meta adcs. Also Lucian's mana drains too fast for what he can do in laning phase. Yes, he has high burst, but his mana just doesnt cut it for what he can do since he relies on his skills rather then his auto attack. Right now, the state of AD carries are disastrous. What riot should do is buff unconventional ad carries like urgot and corki rather than nerfing "OP" ones. The AD carries that are so called "OP" are actually quite balanced. They just seem "OP" compared to other AD because these other AD are so underwhelming.

    Nidalee: banshee's veil? (nvm she can take some minor number adjustment)

    Feral Flare: This was just smashed to the ground. It is currently only good for long ranged wards nothing more. It would have been a easy fix if Feral Flare was capped rather then nerfed to the ground. Currently it is not worth it compared to the amount of time you have to spend.

     Soraka: just let her use more mana. If she actually has to go home, people  can farm while shes not in lane. 

    Last edited by SUlVlTHING: 5/14/2014 11:49:06 AM
  • #71 WithoutQuestion

    Kha'zix is a great assassin but it's really hard to punish him for going all in on someone. Remove the speedbuff on his Stealth.

    LB can just feed herself with kills once she gets DFG. Even in the professional scene it's VERY hard to punish LB.

    Lucian doesn't really need the ATK SPD to push towers because there is generally nothing to guard the towers since he just kills anyone laning against him, and then he can just use his passive on the tower to push it at a decent rate.

    Nidalee rofl: They should just give her spear an inverse effect. Does more damage the closer she is to the target and it weens off the farther it travels.

    Feral Flare: They need to add health scaling back to it :c

    Soraka: Ugh gross nerf the hell out of her Q kthnx

  • #100 guidooo4
    Quote from WithoutQuestion »

    LB can just feed herself with kills once she gets DFG. Even in the professional scene it's VERY hard to punish LB.

    Nidalee rofl: They should just give her spear an inverse effect. Does more damage the closer she is to the target and it weens off the farther it travels.


    Inverse effect on spears would just change her from a toxic poker to a even more toxic assassin. You can't dodge a short range spear, and she can combo her spears with her cougar damage. Burst: 575+225+300 + 1,625+0,4+0,6= magic damage,  (1100+2,625) + 300+3AD, Combine that  with bushwack resistance shred (another 0,4 ratio, total ratio 3,025). The reason damage increases with range is to prevent such combo. without that numbers have to be nerfed so hard she just becomes an assassin without cc and a very short range gapcloser. 

    In my opinion there should be a higher CD on her aspect of the cougar. Or increase the CD when she uses a skill. (or make it more like shyvana's ult) If she commits to trowing spears she loses her mobility, if she commits to being mobile she loses her long range threat. 
    We've all seen a nidalee getting chased, jumping away, throw a spear in your face and jump away again.

    In competitive scene it is very hard to punish a LB, outside competitive seen people seem to do quite well in punishing her. Her winrate (45%) is just as high in bronze as in diamond, and in challenger it is also below 50% on average (tough fluctuates more due to low sample size). (soloQ, in 5x5 it is around 47%). In competitive scene a single kill "always" leads to an objective, and games snowball from there on.


    Last edited by guidooo4: 5/14/2014 8:15:45 PM
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